1. #27381
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    They aren't blaming pootie though. It's still the old 'good tsar, bad boyars' that is long a part of Russia. If only the tsar knew, he would fix it.
    True, but the caveat here is: "yet", if russia gets beaten back too often eventually they'll put the blame on him, as they say: "russians forgive everything, except for a lost war." (probably paraphrased a bit.)

  2. #27382
    can see why ukraine are worried about the iranian drones. Cheap drones capable of doing lots of dmg vs expensive countermeasures. only one side wins that attrition.

    The classic 'how do you deal with drones' is of course :



    It is much more effective to destroy the drone operator than the drone. Ukraine needs to be given the required arms to target launch sites and operators within Russia proper.

    Western agencies should also target Iran and its proxies more heavily.

  3. #27383
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    It is much more effective to destroy the drone operator than the drone. Ukraine needs to be given the required arms to target launch sites and operators within Russia proper.

    Western agencies should also target Iran and its proxies more heavily.
    Just destroy the operator 4head.

    Drones are an issue not only because they cost nothing, but also because their operators are tucked safely away hundreds kilometers in some bunkers nobody knows about.

  4. #27384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I do think that there is a certain pickle for West too, stepping up the game too much may backfire hard, because Putin may end up doing what Russia did best and drown the enemy in blood of its own soldiers if this becomes yet another "great patriotic war" like back in WWII, where Soviet Union practically buried Nazi Germany under a giant pile of corpses.
    Just for discussion, not that I disagree:
    A pile of Belarusian corpses most intensely, plus Ukrainians; and unlike Stalin, Putin doesn't have those. This time minorities from autonomies are being mass sacrificed, which is equally evil and disgusting. (wikipedia page, accurate enough)

    For bonus fun, sort the table by the last column, percentage of total population, and find where the Russian SFSR, which includes national minorities, is placed, and who is above it.

    I was taught about this in early 1990s before handy Internet tables, so you bet Lukashenko knows this too. Might be part of the reason why he's dodging so hard.
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    It's not 2004. People have lives, jobs, families etc

  5. #27385
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynep View Post
    Just for discussion, not that I disagree:
    A pile of Belarusian corpses most intensely, plus Ukrainians; and unlike Stalin, Putin doesn't have those. This time minorities from autonomies are being mass sacrificed, which is equally evil and disgusting. (wikipedia page, accurate enough)

    For bonus fun, sort the table by the last column, percentage of total population, and find where the Russian SFSR, which includes national minorities, is placed, and who is above it.

    I was taught about this in early 1990s before handy Internet tables, so you bet Lukashenko knows this too. Might be part of the reason why he's dodging so hard.
    Considering the shear firepower and area coverage you can get with modern high tech weapons, I don't think even if Russia goes full great patriotic war, lets all run to the slaughter, it would be enough.

    Ukraine has been getting the 'area' version of HIMARS missiles. That's 100's of thousands of steel balls that destroy 'soft targets' in a 4 football field area.
    I wish you good luck zerg rushing against stuff like that.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #27386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I do think that there is a certain pickle for West too, stepping up the game too much may backfire hard, because Putin may end up doing what Russia did best and drown the enemy in blood of its own soldiers if this becomes yet another "great patriotic war" like back in WWII, where Soviet Union practically buried Nazi Germany under a giant pile of corpses.
    These were different times and much, much greater terror and oppression put on Russian people. Not repeatable nowadays, especially when there was this unwritten rule in effect of leaving Russian people alone if they leave politics alone. Sure, he started to break it, but was trying to hide recruitment with bullshit, and many people simply fled abroad w/o much issue. GL to Putler if he starts enlisting people en mass to throw them to the grinder.

    It's almost a year since Putler is stuck in Ukraine and getting humiliated, he would do a WW2 zerg rush much, much sooner, if he knew he could get away with it.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-01-04 at 04:07 PM.
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  7. #27387
    Well, Australia is joining in the HIMARS purchase after seeing how effect it has been in Ukraine. Everyone seems to be wanting them.

    Meanwhile Macron has announced that they will be sending the AMX-10 RC to Ukraine. Its sort of a cross between an APC and a light wheeled tank. Fast, agile and carried a 105mm main gun. And Biden has said that they are considering sending the Bradley IFV. As an interesting fact, the Bradley destroyed more Iraqi tanks than the Abrams did in the Gulf War. And the current russian tanks aren't much better than what the Iraqis had.

    Oh, and add a T-90S to the list of destroyed russian tanks. It is the export version of the T-90A, which was meant to go to India, but pressed into service due to the losses russia has suffered. Oryx now has 1600 lost russian tanks, which is more than 40% of their active tanks at the start of the war. Export models are downgraded versions of the tanks they are based on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    A report made back in November but only just reported has the head of the EU Military mission saying they estimate russian losses at 60K dead and 3 times that many wounded. A total of 250,000 casualties.

  8. #27388
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    A report made back in November but only just reported has the head of the EU Military mission saying they estimate russian losses at 60K dead and 3 times that many wounded. A total of 250,000 casualties.
    I very much doubt that 1 to 3 ratio when it comes to ruZZlamist human wave, and abandon wounded buddy to flee yourself "army". Aren't those odds when army is well trained, supplied and has proper field facilities to treat wounded. RuZZkies don't, nor do they care to.

    I also doubt RuZZkies even quite reach 1 to 2 ratio.
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    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
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    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  9. #27389
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    can see why ukraine are worried about the iranian drones. Cheap drones capable of doing lots of dmg vs expensive countermeasures. only one side wins that attrition.

    The classic 'how do you deal with drones' is of course :



    It is much more effective to destroy the drone operator than the drone. Ukraine needs to be given the required arms to target launch sites and operators within Russia proper.

    Western agencies should also target Iran and its proxies more heavily.
    Talking about Iranian Drones.

    CNN Exclusive: A single Iranian attack drone found to contain parts from more than a dozen US companies

    U.S. Looks at Ways to Further Target Iranian Drone Production, White House Says

  10. #27390
    Oh the irony. While Europe is going through almost unprecedented warm weather for this time of year, reducing the need and hence cost of gas, russia, and pretty much russia alone is about to get hit by an extreme cold wave. We are talking -30c temperatures.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/StarskyUA...83759930499072

  11. #27391
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Oh the irony. While Europe is going through almost unprecedented warm weather for this time of year, reducing the need and hence cost of gas, russia, and pretty much russia alone is about to get hit by an extreme cold wave. We are talking -30c temperatures.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/StarskyUA...83759930499072
    Where is my tiny violin emoji.

  12. #27392
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Oh the irony. While Europe is going through almost unprecedented warm weather for this time of year, reducing the need and hence cost of gas, russia, and pretty much russia alone is about to get hit by an extreme cold wave. We are talking -30c temperatures.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/StarskyUA...83759930499072
    -22F for us yanks. Yowza, that's gonna be rough. Looks like the battlezone is gonna get into the lower (higher?) negatives and won't be quite as bad, but still very much sub-freezing.

  13. #27393
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    -22F for us yanks. Yowza, that's gonna be rough. Looks like the battlezone is gonna get into the lower (higher?) negatives and won't be quite as bad, but still very much sub-freezing.
    Given the fact that the russians seem to have given their mobilised CLINGWRAP as shelters -22 F won't be fun nor will -10F or 0F

  14. #27394
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    They are just getting it via 3rd parties like every other thing they/Russia/NK/whatever get. It does not even have to be via China.

    I'm not sure there is effective mechanism to track this even.

  15. #27395
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    Russia announced a 2-day ceasefire, skeptical but we'll see if it holds up. At the same time in the last week they've been moving more tanks and equipment to Belarus for what everyone believes will be a 2nd push from there, as well as announcing new mass production factories in the East for rockets, drones, and counter-drone equipment mostly licensed from Iran. They added that they plan to manufacture at least 6000 Iranian-designed drones there. So it's definitely a mixed message. It's fairly transparent that Russia would prefer a short break in the combat to regroup and resupply, but that they also have no intention of actually stopping or (voluntarily) withdrawing.

  16. #27396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    They are just getting it via 3rd parties like every other thing they/Russia/NK/whatever get. It does not even have to be via China.

    I'm not sure there is effective mechanism to track this even.
    The ultimate problem is that it is quicker and easier to set up new shell companies to smuggle goods than it is for authorities to investigate and shut them down. The paper trail doesn't even need to be particularly airtight, it only needs to hold up long enough for them to make a single order of parts and get it moved out of the country. At which point it doesn't even matter if an investigator can prove it's fraudulent, they're already done and gone on to the next one. Probably 90% of the people involved are legitimately innocent and have no idea that they just helped an Iranian smuggling ring.

  17. #27397
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    Russia announced a 2-day ceasefire, skeptical but we'll see if it holds up.
    It won't because Ukraine will not agree to it, so if Ukraine attacks the Russians will as well.

  18. #27398
    And some odd news:

    The Danish Queen Margrethe II has withdrawn from her protectorate of the Hans Christian Andersen Award, which is awarded every year to writers and illustrators of children’s books because the president of the prize committee is a Russian who is also promoting "special military operations" propaganda among artists. (The award is handled by Ibby.org that was created after WWII to promote peace by getting children to read; and H.C. Andersen was, of course, the danish author who wrote "The Emperor's New Clothes".)

    https://scandasia.com/russian-ibby-c...-as-protector/

  19. #27399
    Just seen a propaganda video on Reddit of dead Russian soldiers arranged into a Z by Ukrainian soldiers. Am I right in thinking that desecration of corpses is a war crime? I mean I get it. The Ukrainians are pissed and war is hell. But still. I can imagine that behind the scenes they're being told that supporting that shit makes us look bad.

  20. #27400
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkAmbient View Post
    Just seen a propaganda video on Reddit of dead Russian soldiers arranged into a Z by Ukrainian soldiers. Am I right in thinking that desecration of corpses is a war crime? I mean I get it. The Ukrainians are pissed and war is hell. But still. I can imagine that behind the scenes they're being told that supporting that shit makes us look bad.
    It is, yes, or at least it is very much not done.

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