Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gabriel]

Yeah I don't get what's going on in my chancellors brain and he doesn't really explain it to me either.

How the fuck does he think this shitshow will turn out in the long run that it would be necessary or even just the better choice to appease ruSSia? If Russia wins a NATO country will be next in a couple of years and German tanks will be used against Russia anyway. Does he want that, buy a couple years of uncertain non-direct conflict until he's out of office and make it the next chancellors problem? This is the big war of our time and it fucking frustrates me that my government is not able to accept that and act accordingly. We are already part of this war, it's just that so far Ukrainians do the fighting and dying for us.

The only logical explanation is that people like him are doing it for ideological reasons.

[Kralljin]

Look, nobody is going to hold it against Germany if Germany decides to be a pacifist. What Germany doesn't get to do is have it's cake and eat it to.

I can tell you that the americans will be very pissed if they have to move all their military bases out of germany if they want to leave Nato and become a neutral state right in the middle of Europe.

Putting aside that Germany is still a massive industrial power and if they decides to fully commit to neutrality, then any dream of a european military force are going to be very difficult to fulfill.

[Elder Millennial]

So why does everyone do that, knowing that?

In fact...Germany does sorta force other European countries to buy it's crap.

Mostly through using various EU funds and contracts Germany secured majority shares in various European defense contractors. Also using various EU market liberalization mechanisms it's defense contractors ended up buying up various local suppliers.

Germany essentially used the EU and it's predecessors to backdoor itself into a dominance in defense contracts across the countries where NATO and the EU overlaps.

The Brits made their own tanks because of the whole Euroscepticism thing, and the French made their own because for a long time they weren't in NATO. That's how Sweden ended up with its own tanks and jets too.

[Fuiking]

You guys keep forgetting the last time Germany had an army... Maybe theres a level of shame, and fear about the power they can hold if they do have an army, or they're afraid about sending tanks.. cna be translated as: ''oh look Germany as it AGAIN!''

Can we cycle to how weak the Dutch response is? Its shameful and sadge, if you see how many dutch people seem to support Putin.. ''yeah but NATO WAS ENCROUCHING ON HIS BORDERS, SO HES IN HIS RIGHT TO DEFEND HIMSELF'' - kind of talk.

[Iphie]

You guys keep forgetting the last time Germany had an army... Maybe theres a level of shame, and fear about the power they can hold if they do have an army, or they're afraid about sending tanks.. cna be translated as: ''oh look Germany as it AGAIN!''

Can we cycle to how weak the Dutch response is? Its shameful and sadge, if you see how many dutch people seem to support Putin.. ''yeah but NATO WAS ENCROUCHING ON HIS BORDERS, SO HES IN HIS RIGHT TO DEFEND HIMSELF'' - kind of talk.

Has Thierry been stinking up the place lately? I haven't been paying attention to home that much lately. Is he still that Pro -pootin or has he finally seen the light?

[KrayZ33]

French made their own because for a long time they weren't in NATO.

What. For how long exactly and why does that matter, considering at what time *Germany* started to exist etc.

edit: Oh, you are probably talking about how france left the military command structure.

Please explain to me *how* (or just point me towards where I can read about it) Germany forces other European countries to buy their tanks. How are the EU funds used?
And why didn't other countries secure majority shares? Was it given to Germany by someone?
What happened.

[jonnysensible]

email ur local mp tell them to give Ukraine everything it needs. rishi and ben are being based and sending some shit lets goooo

[postman1782]

Comparing Scholz to Trump disingenuous.

Scholz is Merkel 2.0, which follows the idiom of "leading from behind".

Trump literally never lead from the front. He as literally the butt of every joke during the G20 summit he had.

[Corvus]

Source is The Mirror, so would want confirmation from a reliable source, but they are saying the UK will be sending 4 Apaches armed with Hellfires.

https://twitter.com/ukraine_map/stat...OJi8PhN2-pPqoQ

- - - Updated - - -

The UK has confirmed they are sending 14 Challenger 2s as well as 30 AS90 SPGs.

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/st...TgcFrGMP63FCqA

[Deus Mortis]

Source is The Mirror, so would want confirmation from a reliable source, but they are saying the UK will be sending 4 Apaches armed with Hellfires.

https://twitter.com/ukraine_map/stat...OJi8PhN2-pPqoQ

- - - Updated - - -

The UK has confirmed they are sending 14 Challenger 2s as well as 30 AS90 SPGs.

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/st...TgcFrGMP63FCqA

Hope its true, and I hope more and more heavy support ramps up. With the missile attacks on that apartment block in Dnipro today it is obvious Russia is just going to continue to war crime, the best we can do is make it so their male age demographics will be even more fucked for the next several decades.

[Kaleredar]

Hope its true, and I hope more and more heavy support ramps up. With the missile attacks on that apartment block in Dnipro today it is obvious Russia is just going to continue to war crime, the best we can do is make it so their male age demographics will be even more fucked for the next several decades.

As tragic and barbaric as it is, Russia randomly harming and potentially killing innocent people... doesn't seem like it's particularly effective.

The people of Ukraine, by all senses, are committed to continue fighting, and I would assume that every destroyed apartment building or other similar civilian structure Russia destroys only strengthens Ukraine's resolve to continue fighting, rather than "terrifying" them into submission, as I assume Russia's plan is. "Shock and awe" doesn't work when Ukraine knows they possess the ability to resist and put their invaders in the ground.

[Gabriel]

As tragic and barbaric as it is, Russia randomly harming and potentially killing innocent people... doesn't seem like it's particularly effective.

The people of Ukraine, by all senses, are committed to continue fighting, and I would assume that every destroyed apartment building or other similar civilian structure Russia destroys only strengthens Ukraine's resolve to continue fighting, rather than "terrifying" them into submission, as I assume Russia's plan is. "Shock and awe" doesn't work when Ukraine knows they possess the ability to resist and put their invaders in the ground.

In the end this war will wreck similar havoc on Ukraine's demographics as it does on russia's. Have you seen the estimates on numbers of civilians killed or kids kidnapped to Siberia? Russia isn't trying to wage war. It is doing a genocide.

[Kaleredar]

In the end this war will wreck similar havoc on Ukraine's demographics as it does on russia's. Have you seen the estimates on numbers of civilians killed or kids kidnapped to Siberia? Russia isn't trying to wage war. It is doing a genocide.

Oh, I'm sure they're trying.

But of course think of the aftermath. If Ukraine survives- chances that increase with every day they continue to do so- then western countries will be more than happy to pour resources into rebuilding Ukraine, if for no reason less cynical than to have a steadfast ally planted squarely on Russia's doorstep. With that investment will come better futures for the Ukrainians that survived the ordeal, and with investment comes opportunity that will drive immigration.

Russia, meanwhile? They're digging a hole that only grows deeper, wearing their list of allies down ever thinner, and shutting doors on their future. Nobody is going to invest in rebuilding them, and if someone like, say, China does, it'll be to force them into being a vassal state, and not a country that can stand on its own.

[Iphie]

Hope its true, and I hope more and more heavy support ramps up. With the missile attacks on that apartment block in Dnipro today it is obvious Russia is just going to continue to war crime, the best we can do is make it so their male age demographics will be even more fucked for the next several decades.

Russia is doing a sterling job themselves already, with the claim they want a 2 million strong army, that is double the one they have now, their young male population is being pulled out of the economy and killed. Additionally plenty of young, smart folks are fleeing the country, estimates vary from between 500k to 1 million. By then end of this the 18-30 cohort will be devastated which will destroy the following generations.

[Makabreska]

As tragic and barbaric as it is, Russia randomly harming and potentially killing innocent people... doesn't seem like it's particularly effective.

The people of Ukraine, by all senses, are committed to continue fighting, and I would assume that every destroyed apartment building or other similar civilian structure Russia destroys only strengthens Ukraine's resolve to continue fighting, rather than "terrifying" them into submission, as I assume Russia's plan is. "Shock and awe" doesn't work when Ukraine knows they possess the ability to resist and put their invaders in the ground.

Everyone has a breaking point. Ruskies may think that they can achive a state when Ukrainians will be so exhausted with fear, death, destruction, supplies and energy shortages that they will start pressuring their gov to just end this conflict. Which tells us everything about how Russia, after all those years, is a still a bandit state.

[Fuiking]

Has Thierry been stinking up the place lately? I haven't been paying attention to home that much lately. Is he still that Pro -pootin or has he finally seen the light?

hes still pro - pooting, but many regular dutchies think hes right.. doesnt work when your own goverment didnt really want to expand back in the 90's.

[Iphie]

Russians really ought to quit smoking

Ok, so TASS, there's a bit more casualties reported in the grapevine.

В Белгородской области военнослужащий взорвал гранату на территориии части. Погибли трое военных.

По информации «Базы», взрыв произошел в здании сельского дома культуры, где располагались российские военные. По предварительным данным, один из военнослужащих взорвал гранату РГД-5.

Из-за взрыва в здании сдетонировали боеприпасы и начался пожар. Его потушили прибывшие пожарные. Погибли трое военнослужащих, еще как минимум 10 пострадали.
t.me/bazabazon
/15385

Google translate says this:

In the Belgorod region, a serviceman blew up a grenade on the territory of the unit. Three soldiers were killed.

According to "Baza", the explosion occurred in the building of the village house of culture, where the Russian military was located. According to preliminary data, one of the servicemen blew up an RGD-5 grenade.

Due to the explosion, ammunition detonated in the building and a fire started. It was put out by the firemen who arrived. Three soldiers were killed and at least 10 others were injured.

[Orange Joe]

Just seen a propaganda video on Reddit of dead Russian soldiers arranged into a Z by Ukrainian soldiers. Am I right in thinking that desecration of corpses is a war crime? I mean I get it. The Ukrainians are pissed and war is hell. But still. I can imagine that behind the scenes they're being told that supporting that shit makes us look bad.

moving bodies is now desecration? Last time I check desecration had to do with "destroying/mutilating" a body.

[Corvus]

Everyone has a breaking point. Ruskies may think that they can achieve a state when Ukrainians will be so exhausted with fear, death, destruction, supplies and energy shortages that they will start pressuring their gov to just end this conflict. Which tells us everything about how Russia, after all those years, is a still a bandit state.

Terror bombing campaigns have never in history broken a nation. As horrific as what Ukraine is going through, it is minor compared to the terror bombing in WW2 and that failed as a means of breaking anyone's resolve. On top of that, Ukraine is well aware of the many atrocities that russia has been committing, and nor is russia exactly subtle about their desire to genocide Ukraine. Ukraine will not be breaking.

[Lahis]

Can these mobiks guys who are placed into trenches kill anything? what is their job and why are they calling them mobilized? On every video they seem to die en masse without doing anything

The job is to soak up Ukrainian ammunition. Russia hopes Ukraine will run out of bullets.