Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Iphie]

Because there was no way we were winning anyway.

Terror attacks can work when there is no hope, why continue to suffer for no reason. Ukraine has plenty of hope, they actually have a realistic chance of winning and the alternative is genocide.
They have every incentive not to surrender.

Not entirely true, at the Afsluitdijk we resisted the entire time, and the Bombardment of Rotterdam was to force the issue, Germany threatened to do the same to Amsterdam, Den Haag, Utrecht (probably, it's been 25+ years ago I learned this in VWO) and pretty much every other single big city. The Dutch leadership just had less grit than the Ukrainians. Would the Netherlands have lost? Yes, probably, but don't forget we still used the Waterlinie, if Germany didn't have planes they would not likely have been able to pass that easily. Fortress Holland might have stood long enough for some form of reinforcements to come. (Unlikely, but hey, one can dream, right?)

[Gabriel]

You guys are confusing terror bombings and systematic genocide.

[YUPPIE]

You guys are confusing terror bombings and systematic genocide.

Russia is doing both in Ukraine. There's no confusion because that implies they're only doing one of either.

If the recent bombings indicate to me anything, it's that Russia is escalating these crimes against humanity in a show of: "If you don't fucking stop doing things my way, it's only going to get more depraved/worse."

But so far, apart from Hungary, I have not seen much (if any) effort to appease Russia. It feels like Russia is ironically making the West more pissed than anxious.

[DarkTZeratul]

But so far, apart from Hungary, I have not seen much (if any) effort to appease Russia. It feels like Russia is ironically making the West more pissed than anxious.

Yes, it's almost like that's what happens when you commit war crimes, and not that people give you what you want to get you to stop.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah the more Western news gets to show Russian war crimes on the news the more public support is going to remain high for Ukraine.

[Kaleredar]

Russia is doing both in Ukraine. There's no confusion because that implies they're only doing one of either.

If the recent bombings indicate to me anything, it's that Russia is escalating these crimes against humanity in a show of: "If you don't fucking stop doing things my way, it's only going to get more depraved/worse."

But so far, apart from Hungary, I have not seen much (if any) effort to appease Russia. It feels like Russia is ironically making the West more pissed than anxious.

Took you that long to realize this, did it?

[Corvus]

And with the next Rammstein meeting in a few days, committing atrocities like in Dnipro just heightens calls for more support. If they had brains they would have lain low before the meeting but they don't. In the immortal words of one Ukrainian soldier, 'it's a good thing for us they are so fucking stupid.'

[Lynarii]

Russia is doing both in Ukraine. There's no confusion because that implies they're only doing one of either.

If the recent bombings indicate to me anything, it's that Russia is escalating these crimes against humanity in a show of: "If you don't fucking stop doing things my way, it's only going to get more depraved/worse."

But so far, apart from Hungary, I have not seen much (if any) effort to appease Russia. It feels like Russia is ironically making the West more pissed than anxious.

What is distinct is that if you look at Denmark, when they surrendered to Germany they actually got treated relatively decently. The Danish mortality rate in WW2 was one of the lower ones for involved countries. Since the Germans were never intending genocide on Denmark, they could offer 'You surrender and be treated well, or you fight us, lose, and you don't get treated well'.

The Russians can't offer something similar. They're already murdering the men, raping the women, and kidnapping the children in Ukraine. There isn't a 'You let us genocide your entire population or else' because there isn't a worse 'else' to hold over them. If the Ukrainians surrender, they die horrifically, and they know it.

[YUPPIE]

The Russians can't offer something similar.

given how the EU has already found workable gas alternatives, and gas being the only thing Russia has ever had to offer/trade, it makes you wonder if they're capable of entering the civilized world again after this war.

The generalization of Russians being barbarians is so seeped into Western culture since this happening, it's hard to imagine anyone will overlook them in any foreseeable future.

[Calfredd]

Russia is doing both in Ukraine. There's no confusion because that implies they're only doing one of either.

If the recent bombings indicate to me anything, it's that Russia is escalating these crimes against humanity in a show of: "If you don't fucking stop doing things my way, it's only going to get more depraved/worse."

But so far, apart from Hungary, I have not seen much (if any) effort to appease Russia. It feels like Russia is ironically making the West more pissed than anxious.

You're back earlier than I was hoping for.

[Xyonai]

given how the EU has already found workable gas alternatives, and gas being the only thing Russia has ever had to offer/trade, it makes you wonder if they're capable of entering the civilized world again after this war.

The generalization of Russians being barbarians is so seeped into Western culture since this happening, it's hard to imagine anyone will overlook them in any foreseeable future.

I think the onus is less on what the West wants and more about how Russia proceeds post Ukraine war. We extended an olive branch to Russia by involving them in global trade and easing out of a lot of our Red-Scare era fearmongering... and they responded by continuing to be belligerent and hostile to anything within arm's reach. I don't think anything short of getting absolutely buggered like Germany and Japan were post WW2, then being built back from the ground up by western powers, is going to fix a lot of their political issues.

[zorkuus]

I don't think anything short of getting absolutely buggered like Germany and Japan were post WW2, then being built back from the ground up by western powers, is going to fix a lot of their political issues.

And that's not going to happen so we have to remain steadfast and not offer them an olive branch this time. Either they continue to be a pariah state for a long time or they come to their senses on their own.

[Iphie]

And that's not going to happen so we have to remain steadfast and not offer them an olive branch this time. Either they continue to be a pariah state for a long time or they come to their senses on their own.

I know you know better than to have any hope of this happening. (even if every single Russian I personally know has been against the war since day one.)

[zorkuus]

I know you know better than to have any hope of this happening. (even if every single Russian I personally know has been against the war since day one.)

I know it won't happen. But the alternative... the west being naive fools again to offer them an olive branch must not take place. I will personally take part in organizing mass protests if any politician even suggests such a thing in my lifetime.

[YUPPIE]

so while this was mentioned before on and off, analysts have noted recently again the reason Russians refuse to surrender is that they believe if they conquer Ukraine, there will be normalcy again in their lives as the West will have no choice but to just concede given the resources they seize; if they fail, they believe they will never return to their previous way of life (i.e "normalcy" in Western brands, tech, etc).

Putin also thinks this way, which is why the Finnish president has worryingly said he's going to go on the warpath until he gets what he wants, regardless of victory being logically improbable.

[Nymrohd]

even if every single Russian I personally know has been against the war since day one

That's at least nice. The one Russian I see every day denies the Russians have killed a single civilian (and she is from Ukraine and both her children are still there though I've no idea where they might be). Heck she denies that there have been any strikes in Kyiv...

[Iphie]

That's at least nice. The one Russian I see every day denies the Russians have killed a single civilian (and she is from Ukraine and both her children are still there though I've no idea where they might be). Heck she denies that there have been any strikes in Kyiv...

Yeah, they live in Moscow and they can't get out due to not having the means. It's because of them that I do get annoyed when people say things like :"all russians support the war", and, "there are no good russians". Ya know? (note it's like 5 people anyway)

[Nymrohd]

Yeah, they live in Moscow and they can't get out due to not having the means. It's because of them that I do get annoyed when people say things like :"all russians support the war", and, "there are no good russians". Ya know? (note it's like 5 people anyway)

She doesn't live in Moscow. She lives in Greece. She has full access to Western news.

[Dontrike]

You have to wonder just how many tanks Russia has left when you hear reports of some battalions having near none left.

One of the battalions making up an "elite" Russian tank regiment waging war in Ukraine has just 10 tanks left, operated by 30 soldiers, according to Ukraine's armed forces.

The battalion of Russia's 26th Tank Regiment, which is fighting around the city of Kupiansk, in the Kharkiv region of eastern Ukraine, had 10 T-80BV main battle tanks still in "serviceable condition" as of Thursday, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine posted on Facebook on Sunday.

The rest are "destroyed or disabled," according to the General Staff, with those still in operation manned by around 30 Russian personnel.

A Russian tank battalion typically consists of approximately 40 main battle tanks, according to current affairs magazine The Diplomat. Each of the Russian tank regiments has around 93 tanks in three battalions, according to Insider.

[Logwyn]

You have to wonder just how many tanks Russia has left when you hear reports of some battalions having near none left.

I wonder what Russian production of military vehicles is. I doubt it is enough to cover losses.