Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Santti]

The Pantsir in Moscow is almost certainly internal propaganda, trying to scare the local population so they are more likely to volunteer/less likely to resist mobilisation.

That's how they are going to sell it for sure, and it might work, at least to some degree. I guess I'd have to be Russian to properly understand it. But as an outsider, it just makes Russia look weak and scared. Russia is supposed to be the strong one, but I guess trying to project that image has become a rather hard sell, after humiliation after humiliation.

[YUPPIE]

That's how they are going to sell it for sure, and it might work, at least to some degree. I guess I'd have to be Russian to properly understand it. But as an outsider, it just makes Russia look weak and scared. Russia is supposed to be the strong one, but I guess trying to project that image has become a rather hard sell, after humiliation after humiliation.

Not "strong," but people are definitely afraid of Russia now. What with the killing, torture, raping, and the fact they're letting dangerous convicts - even from death row - on the frontline now.

[Edge-]

Not "strong," but people are definitely afraid of Russia now.

What are they afraid Russia is going to do? Sink some of their own (Russian) boats in their waters and declare victory?

[YUPPIE]

What are they afraid Russia is going to do?

Letting people like this on the loose.

Remember a few months ago I cited a different story about convicts that have already murdered their officers and gone AWOL...

[Xyonai]

Not "strong," but people are definitely afraid of Russia now. What with the killing, torture, raping, and the fact they're letting dangerous convicts - even from death row - on the frontline now.

We're afraid of them because they're the national equivalent of the dipshit white nationalists in the states. Sure if they tried to actually hit above their weight class they'd be squashed like a fucking bug, but in the time between the initial attack to the point where they're turned into a fine past a lot of innocent people will be hurt or killed.

The word here isn't fear, it's contempt.

[Edge-]

Letting people like this on the loose.

Remember a few months ago I cited a different story about convicts that have already murdered their officers and gone AWOL...

...and? He wants to fight, so what? The article gives no indication that he's been released, much less sent to the front lines.

How effective do you think his skillset will be in an actual firefight? Do you think other soldiers are going to be inclined to want to serve alongside him and trust him?

[Elder Millennial]

Moscow itself has nothing to fear. Nothing will attack or get into the sanctuary of Moscow.

That's Russia's greatest advantage.

And you are basing that on?

If Ukraine can reach Engels and hit Engels, Russia's primary military air force base and nuclear bomber base, what makes you think "nothing will get to Moscow"?

Ukraine not choosing to hit Moscow, and not being able to hit Moscow are two completely different things.

[Corvus]

So little Estonia has really stepped up. They have contributed 1% of their GDP to aid Ukraine. That is what happens when you have an existential threat sitting on your doorstep. For comparison, the US has contributed 0.08%. The US still remains by far the largest donor though, with another reported massive package on the way, ready to mock pootie's tiny package.

[YUPPIE]

And you are basing that on?

No, I mean we can definitely hit Moscow. Easily at that. We just don't because of what that entails.

I was never implying Moscow would be difficult to hit because of security, militaristic, or technological reasons.

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How effective do you think his skillset will be in an actual firefight? Do you think other soldiers are going to be inclined to want to serve alongside him and trust him?

nah he won't fight, he's gonna go AWOL at the first chance he gets. That's why it's scary.

[Corvus]

In the lead up to Rammstein, this is what has been promised so far just this week. Not counting ammo, drones, etc. Expect more at the meeting itself.

Canada
200 Senator multipurpose vehicles
1 NASAMS air defense batteries

Czechs
30 152 mm SpGH DANA self-propelled gun

Denmark
19 CAESAR self-propelled howitzers
3 IRIS-T air defense batteries

Estonia
10 FH70 towed howitzers
10 D30 towed howitzers

France
40 AMX-10rc armored fighting vehicles
?? ACMAT Bastion armored personnel carriers

Germany
40 Marder infantry fighting vehicles
1 Patriot air defense system

Italy
1 SAMP/T air defense system

Poland
14 Leopard 2 main battle tanks*

United Kingdom
14 Challenger 2 main battle tanks
30 AS90 “Braveheart” self-propelled howitzers
200 APCs / IFVs (not yet specified)
600 Brimstone 2 advanced anti-tank missiles

United States
100 Bradley armored fighting vehicles
100 Stryker armored personnel carriers
250 M113 armored personnel carriers
138 HMMWV multipurpose vehicles
36 M119 105mm towed howitzer
1 Patriot air defense system
6 NASAMS air defense batteries

Sweden
12? Archer SPGs
50 CV90 infantry fighting vehicles

Pootie's plan on hoping the West looses interest is just not working.

[Elder Millennial]

Not "strong," but people are definitely afraid of Russia now. What with the killing, torture, raping, and the fact they're letting dangerous convicts - even from death row - on the frontline now.

People were always "afraid" of Russia.

They were the villains in fiction for decades for a reason. We just started to think that they were villainized for no good reason...Until they decide to live up to the hype and be the comic book villains that people thought for decades that they were.

I recently re-read Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising. It's surreal that reading that book feels almost prophetic... in many ways, and all his insights about shit Russian logistics, excuses for invasions, illogical behavior, rapey warcrimey tendencies, top heavy organization, lack of NCOs, unrealistic war plans etc are perfectly transferable to this conflict.

It's like Russia hasn't changed since Clancy looked at them.

[Edge-]

nah he won't fight, he's gonna go AWOL at the first chance he gets. That's why it's scary.

Will he? How do you know? AWOL where, back at boot in Russia? Somewhere between where he departs Russia and where he arrives in Ukraine? The Ukrainian front lines?

You overreact to literally everything and blow it out of proportion, treating a report of this guy saying he wants to fight as if it's a report that he's already been sent to the front lines. Please find reality.

[Corvus]

A joint statement by the defence ministers of Estonia, the United Kingdom, Poland, Latvia and Lithuania; and the representatives of Denmark, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, and Slovakia, called the Tallin Pledge.

We the Defence Ministers of Estonia, the United Kingdom, Poland, Latvia and Lithuania; and the representatives of Denmark, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, and Slovakia met today, 19 January, to reaffirm our continued determination and resolve to supporting Ukraine in their heroic resistance against the illegal and unprovoked Russian aggression.

It goes on to list the material assistance they are pledging.

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This site tracks donations to Ukraine, including amounts, % of GDP etc.

[YUPPIE]

People were always "afraid" of Russia.

They were the villains in fiction for decades for a reason. We just started to think that they were villainized for no good reason...Until they decide to live up to the hype and be the comic book villains that people thought for decades that they were.

I recently re-read Tom Clancy's Red Storm Rising. It's surreal that reading that book feels almost prophetic... in many ways, and all his insights about shit Russian logistics, excuses for invasions, illogical behavior, rapey warcrimey tendencies, top heavy organization, lack of NCOs, unrealistic war plans etc are perfectly transferable to this conflict.

It's like Russia hasn't changed since Clancy looked at them.

yeah and that's why I don't appreciate people saying they're just these bumbling drunk idiots getting blown up and making a fool of themselves, relatively harmless to anyone but themselves.

They're brutal, remorseless, and unhinged killers.

[Gabriel]

yeah and that's why I don't appreciate people saying they're just these bumbling drunk idiots getting blown up and making a fool of themselves, relatively harmless to anyone but themselves.

They're brutal, remorseless, and unhinged killers.

That description fits literally the entire russian army. Known rapists going AWOL means that they are not part of the organized effort to rape and kill Ukrainian civilians.

[Corvus]

The US dropped another 2.5 billion in aid. That is going to make daddy vlad very unhappy that his treason caucus has been unable to stop aid flowing to Ukraine.

A ton more ammo, rockets, missiles, air defence systems and vehicles including 90 Strykers and another 59 Bradleys, each with 10 TOW missiles, to go with the 50 Bradleys promised the other day.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkHertl...29682436784128

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The Dutch FM has reportedly said that if Kyiv asks, they will consider supplying F16s, that nothing is taboo.

https://mobile.twitter.com/clashrepo...52873431945216

[Fuiking]

The US dropped another 2.5 billion in aid. That is going to make daddy vlad very unhappy that his treason caucus has been unable to stop aid flowing to Ukraine.

A ton more ammo, rockets, missiles, air defence systems and vehicles including 90 Strykers and another 59 Bradleys, each with 10 TOW missiles, to go with the 50 Bradleys promised the other day.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkHertl...29682436784128

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The Dutch FM has reportedly said that if Kyiv asks, they will consider supplying F16s, that nothing is taboo.

https://mobile.twitter.com/clashrepo...52873431945216

Whenever the dutch FM says something, never believe it. They are trying to just backseat this war so hard.

[Iphie]

The US dropped another 2.5 billion in aid. That is going to make daddy vlad very unhappy that his treason caucus has been unable to stop aid flowing to Ukraine.

A ton more ammo, rockets, missiles, air defence systems and vehicles including 90 Strykers and another 59 Bradleys, each with 10 TOW missiles, to go with the 50 Bradleys promised the other day.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkHertl...29682436784128

- - - Updated - - -

The Dutch FM has reportedly said that if Kyiv asks, they will consider supplying F16s, that nothing is taboo.

https://mobile.twitter.com/clashrepo...52873431945216

Bit of a caveat with those F-16's no major Dutch newssite/newspaper has picked it up yet, so not exactly confirmed.

[DarkAmbient]

How significant would the detriment be to Ukraine if Germany didn't give the nod for the Leopard 2 tanks?

Russia mustn't be allowed to win this war, so it's a little frustrating when other nations drag their feet.

Edit: Just heard a former army intelligence officer say that Germany's intransigence could be partly due to a reluctance to give Russia the opportunity to reverse engineer their technology, which is something I'd not considered.

[Iphie]

How significant would the detriment be to Ukraine if Germany didn't give the nod for the Leopard 2 tanks?

Russia mustn't be allowed to win this war, so it's a little frustrating when other nations drag their feet.

Edit: Just heard a former army intelligence officer say that Germany's intransigence could be partly due to a reluctance to give Russia the opportunity to reverse engineer their technology, which is something I'd not considered.

That would be the same with the Americans, and I can understand the hesitation if that's the case. But Ukraine's need is great, they have so many russians to bury...

Apparently there's some chatter about T-14's:

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status...X3SXddWww&s=19