Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Twdft]

Merkel was dragging her feet about a lot of things too, but I sincerely believe that she would have seen the reality of this war and give Ukraine everything they need to win it.

Scholz doesn't explain his reasoning, and that's fucking frustrating.

[Gabriel]

here's the two-edged sword dilemma. His motive with these speeches is to make said politicians feel guilty, right? And for the most part, it works, given the support Ukraine has received.

But what if it backfires and makes someone mad and cut off support, altogether? Like if this was Trump, for instance. Scholz hasn't felt guilty or bad over this, and he has responded: he has stated to be irritated at being pressured from all sides.

Then fuck him. The popular opinion is strongly in the "fuck Russia" corner, so if some politician gets too uppity, they can and will be replaced.

[Xyonai]

Merkel was dragging her feet about a lot of things too, but I sincerely believe that she would have seen the reality of this war and give Ukraine everything they need to win it.

Scholz doesn't explain his reasoning, and that's fucking frustrating.

And that last bit is really the crux of it. It's waffling and goalpost shifting out of sending help that's the annoying part, less-so then he's not doing it.

Though I don't think he's on Russia's side in this; more likely it's something more mundane like that their own Leopards don't work as well as they should, or Scholz is - for some reason - legitimately scared of Russia's threats of retaliation against Europe.

[Gaidax]

All this dancing around the tanks is pretty pathetic. But then again, I can understand West - if they can just toss some scraps and pittance and keep the whole thing contained waiting for Russia to crumble, it's all they need.

This shit will last 2-3 years more until Russia decides to cut their losses and get back to the previous line in the sand.

[Paranoid Android]

There used to be a time in the past century Germany would have been happy to have tanks in Russia.

Sorry children.

I'm always stuck here on escalation and Ukraine's sovereignty here. No doubt Germany is/has and would be escalating with Leopard tanks.

[YUPPIE]

to be fair, Russia did already threaten to destroy Germany if they sent those tanks (the guy who wondered if Scholz has something to fear).

On another note, it's not just the Germans; the top Pentagon officials are also reluctant to send these out for some reason.

[Corvus]

It isn't reluctance to supply the Abrams, its that compared to the Leo 2 they are very fuel and maintenance heavy. The Leo is simpler to operate and maintain, and also much closer to bases where proper maintenance can be done.

- - - Updated - - -

Third Pantsir air defence system spotted going up in Moscow. Got to wonder how well build those rooves are, trying to support that much weight, not to mention all those explosives.

[Iphie]

It isn't reluctance to supply the Abrams, its that compared to the Leo 2 they are very fuel and maintenance heavy. The Leo is simpler to operate and maintain, and also much closer to bases where proper maintenance can be done.

- - - Updated - - -

Third Pantsir air defence system spotted going up in Moscow. Got to wonder how well build those rooves are, trying to support that much weight, not to mention all those explosives.

Another thing, after they've fired, HOW the hell do they get resupplied? I mean do they have a load of extras or do they need those cranes to resupply? The mind boggles.

[zealo]

Another thing, after they've fired, HOW the hell do they get resupplied? I mean do they have a load of extras or do they need those cranes to resupply? The mind boggles.

Probably with the cranes.

It's not like they can expect actually having to use them in Moscow very often, unless someone gets jumpy and shoots down something friendly.

[Corvus]

Probably with the cranes.

It's not like they can expect actually having to use them in Moscow very often, unless someone gets jumpy and shoots down something friendly.

Moscow is meant to be an air exclusion zone so nothing but security/military aircraft are allowed to fly there. Which makes all this air defence going up even stranger.

[KrayZ33]

to be fair, Russia did already threaten to destroy Germany if they sent those tanks (the guy who wondered if Scholz has something to fear).

On another note, it's not just the Germans; the top Pentagon officials are also reluctant to send these out for some reason.

They also said they are at war with the west and their propaganda TV-shows want France to be nuked.
There is nothing to fear.
Germany is already indirectly responsible for the death of thousands of Russians and the destruction of tanks in the hundreds, alongside supplying the troops of Ukraine with food, clothing etc.
Sending tanks wouldn't change anything in that regard, it would just make the thing more efficient - probably.

It's like punching your enemy in the face with your right arm, and then you hesitate using your left arm as well.
This show is only over once Putin is out of Ukraine. The destruction of Germany is only possible if Russia decides to use nukes... which doesn't matter, because if you are scared of nukes while defending against an attacking nation like that, you might as well surrender everything to them and fulfill their every desire.

I'd rather be nuked instead - as long as I get to be in the center of the explosion.

[YUPPIE]

This show is only over once Putin is out of Ukraine.

I don't think so. Zelenksy himself has commentated recently it's unlikely it's going to just end once Putin is gone.

[DarkTZeratul]

I don't think so. Zelenksy himself has commentated recently it's unlikely it's going to just end once Putin is gone.

Show me specifically where he said that and what he said, because I'm almost positive there's some hugely important context you're ignoring.

[Corvus]

Ukraine is putting russian losses in the last month at 20000. That's dead, not casualties, though given russian medical care there isn't much difference. Unless you are a blonde female tiktok propagandist and then they drop everything to rush you to specialist care in Moscow. Word is she has a shattered knee, meaning she probably won't be walking properly again. She found out.

But 20k dead isn't unrealistic given how they were throwing waves of bodies at Soledar, plus other videos of unsupported infantry attack across open ground against entrenched Ukrainians.

[Iphie]

Ukraine is putting russian losses in the last month at 20000. That's dead, not casualties, though given russian medical care there isn't much difference. Unless you are a blonde female tiktok propagandist and then they drop everything to rush you to specialist care in Moscow. Word is she has a shattered knee, meaning she probably won't be walking properly again. She found out.

But 20k dead isn't unrealistic given how they were throwing waves of bodies at Soledar, plus other videos of unsupported infantry attack across open ground against entrenched Ukrainians.

You know...if we take standard ratios of 3:1 for Wounded Vs KIA, you'd end up with nearly 500k russian casualties since the start. Ukraine claims 120k russian dead, so that would translate to about 360k wounded...

Wagner is said to no longer be able to get peeps from prison as the PRISONERS regard it as a death sentence to go fight for them.

Another round of mobilization of 500k would barely fill the gap. Russia's demographics are collapsing before our eyes...well more than they already did.

[Corvus]

Except dead to wounded for russia is probably more 1:1. The amount of videos of them just ignoring wounded comrades, even when not under fire, is staggering. The indifference to others is hard to understand from a western mindset.

[YUPPIE]

The amount of videos of them just ignoring wounded comrades, even when not under fire, is staggering. The indifference to others is hard to understand from a western mindset.

It's not difficult to understand at all. Reiterating Russians have ideals of strength imprinted into their very being: if you're wounded, dying, or otherwise no longer in a position to fight in a war, you have proven your "weakness" and only the strong move forward.

Social Darwinism, the weak being left behind, so on. That's what Russians believe in.

[Corvus]

And that is why they are failing so hard. That kind of attitude is antithetical to promoting loyalty, professionalism, teamwork and all the other traits that act as major force multipliers.

[YUPPIE]

all three of those concepts are alien/unknown to Russian soldiers and mercs.

[Iphie]

Except dead to wounded for russia is probably more 1:1. The amount of videos of them just ignoring wounded comrades, even when not under fire, is staggering. The indifference to others is hard to understand from a western mindset.

True...but that doesn't actually make it better so to say. It just makes it so that everyone is looking out for themselves and damn their so-called "comrades".