Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Logwyn]

Using prohibited weapon is the exact sort of thing that could get NATO directly involved to end the conflict. That is the very last thing Russia wants because it would mean they forces in Ukraine get bombed into the stone age in short order.

Might even get the UN to step in too!

[YUPPIE]

if by prohibited weapons you mean chemical, NATO won't step in for that. See Syria.

NATO only steps in if Russia invades Western soil, attacks its affiliates, or nukes Ukraine. Anything else, it won't happen.

[Iphie]

Might even get the UN to step in too!

The UN is a bit hamstrung by China and russia being permanent members of the security council, though I'm pretty sure that will be solved really quickly in russia's case if that shit would go down.

[Xyonai]

The UN is a bit hamstrung by China and russia being permanent members of the security council, though I'm pretty sure that will be solved really quickly in russia's case if that shit would go down.

The US could just start its own 'peacekeeping operation' and invite some friends along. Not as likely to happen, but we've done shittier things for flimsier pretenses.

[YUPPIE]

The US could just start its own 'peacekeeping operation' and invite some friends along.

the moment the US does that, it's all over for them.

Just stop factoring the US, NATO, or UN into this conflict directly. They will never get into it. That's solely where Russia's threats hold weight; the threat of "DON'T FUCKING CROSS THIS LINE"

[Xyonai]

the moment the US does that, it's all over for them.

Just stop factoring the US, NATO, or UN into this conflict directly. They will never get into it. That's solely where Russia's threats hold weight; the threat of "DON'T FUCKING CROSS THIS LINE"

hence the 'not as likely to happen' caveat you cut out of my quote.

I don't think American Boots in UA/RU is impossible, there's a bunch of stupid shit Putin and his circle of loons could pull to directly drag us into their mess, but I also don't think it's likely while Ukraine continues to make strides towards repelling Russia with their own servicemen (minus any foreign volunteers).

But I also don't think we give a shit about their threats if only because Russia keeps setting up imaginary red lines and not doing anything when they keep getting crossed. We've sent Tanks, artillery, and missile defense systems that Russia's both claimed are horrendous red lines but also pitiful things that they will destroy (They have yet to destroy a single US donated piece of equipment and I can see that trend continuing). Ukraine's struck Russian territory multiple times, hell they shucked a drone all the way to their strategic bomber airfield in Engels and did fucking nothing but make excuses that it was an accident (same shit they said with the Moskava and the Crimean Bridge) and did fuckall except try and kill more civilians.

All bark and no bite has shown considerable weakness on their part, and it makes their peers doubt they even have the -means- to retaliate. But no one wants to gamble with nuclear weapons, even if we doubt their validity. So We're content with Boiling Putin's frog.

[YUPPIE]

the one ultimate non-imaginary red line, the one absolute truth, is US soldiers' feet on the ground in Ukraine. That is what hasn't been crossed for good reason. That is the line the US cares for. Everything else is whatever/bluster.

And also, more than NATO and the US, I would expect absolutely nothing out of the UN.

[MCMLXXXII]

There won't be US boots on the ground in Ukraine. But currently, there are a lot of US boots all over the eastern NATO borders, as well as of other NATO members.

[Gabriel]

Can I ask if Ukraine needed the tanks without looking like I'm siding with Russia or anything?

Its a question NATO members asked, struggled with, and obviously ended up saying yes to but I feel like it is necessary that the move has moved the war up a level.

* Ukraine deserves to defend itself and Russia deserves to get it ass kicked.


But was the situation bad enough to warrant tanks? I would say yes if I was in Ukraine because I would want all tools available to defend my phone. Is it right for NATO to push weapons they know will escalate the war and get more Ukrainians killed if Ukraine was handling business without the tanks. I also stopped following the war closely so idk.


Its like you see a person being bullied so you teach them how to fight. The person is able to defend themselves but now has to fight to keep from getting bullied. You give the person a knife so now they dont have to fight as hard knowing their bully will likely get a knife as well and was waiting for an excuse to use said knife. The kid you helped will now forever face unique consequences whether the bully stops or not, things like people coming at them to steal their knife or having to live with the life long consequences of being stabbed if/when they get stabbed.


I'm leaning on the side of "fuck it, give them more tanks" but I'm saying that as someone an world away that doesn't have to deal with the consequences of an escalated war and the fallout.

Well the proper reaction to seeing a person being bullied is laying the bully the fuck out, and not pussying around with debating whether or not you should give that person being bullied the knife or not.

As long as the West can't find the balls to carpet bomb the ruskies out from Ukraine, the least we can do is give them the best equipment we have.

[YUPPIE]

Zelenksy today has made a statement, citing the weapons and equipment that Ukraine receives is not enough as it is. They need more. He mentions today there was another missile strike that took the lives of many, likely the Shahed drone attack, and sends his condolences.



I just wanted to bring the header image here directly because he looks so intimidating in this shot.

[LilSaihah]

I just wanted to bring the header image here directly because he looks so intimidating in this shot.

ngl he looks like a dad who is Very Upset

[Veggie50]

the one ultimate non-imaginary red line, the one absolute truth, is US soldiers' feet on the ground in Ukraine. That is what hasn't been crossed for good reason. That is the line the US cares for. Everything else is whatever/bluster.

And also, more than NATO and the US, I would expect absolutely nothing out of the UN.

Yes comrad, this is ultimate totally not imaginary red line. Not at all like pur previous ultimate non imaginary red lines! This ones for real comrad. If you cross it, we will unleash our REAL military, instead of this joking around we’ve been doing.

[YUPPIE]

If you cross it, we will unleash our REAL military

you already know what would actually happen if Western forces put boots on Ukrainian ground, man. If that too was bluster, this war would already be over.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Complete tangent.

That looks like bran new ammo, in a Russian caliber, with English factory labeling. That's some of that ammo Romania/Bulgaria/Slovakia etc have been churning out for Ukraine.

I've read that some might be from Pakistan, which Indian press has quickly linked to the F16 fighter package that was greenlit last year, despite the tense history between the US and Pakistan given the latters involvment with the Taliban, Al-Quaida and China.

[Gabriel]

you already know what would actually happen if Western forces put boots on Ukrainian ground, man. If that too was bluster, this war would already be over.

That is the whole thing. This whole thing is a game of street football and the kid that owns the ball is really bad at the game and if they lose too badly, they will take the ball and go home and then come back with their dad's AR15 and try to kill everyone that was playing.

If the West wanted to, we could BTFO russia tomorrow.

[Azadina]

you already know what would actually happen if Western forces put boots on Ukrainian ground, man. If that too was bluster, this war would already be over.

Yes, it's known what would happen. RuZZkies would rage about it, and their terrorist presence in Ukraine would be terminated. That's all. They are not going to have their country glassed over....you know, having their country intact as it was before this terrorist venture.

[Iphie]

I've read that some might be from Pakistan, which Indian press has quickly linked to the F16 fighter package that was greenlit last year, despite the tense history between the US and Pakistan given the latters involvment with the Taliban, Al-Quaida and China.

Yeah, I recently read that Pakistan had delivered 150 pallets of ammo to Ukraine, not sure what or how much that is, but still.

[Surfd]

But was the situation bad enough to warrant tanks? I would say yes if I was in Ukraine because I would want all tools available to defend my phone. Is it right for NATO to push weapons they know will escalate the war and get more Ukrainians killed if Ukraine was handling business without the tanks. I also stopped following the war closely so idk.

Its like you see a person being bullied so you teach them how to fight. The person is able to defend themselves but now has to fight to keep from getting bullied. You give the person a knife so now they dont have to fight as hard knowing their bully will likely get a knife as well and was waiting for an excuse to use said knife. The kid you helped will now forever face unique consequences whether the bully stops or not, things like people coming at them to steal their knife or having to live with the life long consequences of being stabbed if/when they get stabbed.

I'm leaning on the side of "fuck it, give them more tanks" but I'm saying that as someone an world away that doesn't have to deal with the consequences of an escalated war and the fallout.

You know, I can possibly, just vaguely possibly, see how one might imagine this as a possible thing to consider, if, say, this were a "glorious" war. You know, the kind of war ignorant people who's only exposure to the subject has been old hollywood war dramas where the good guys and bad guys duke it out all nice and proper like, army to army, and the victor defeats the bad guy, and everything is ok.

But here's the thing. This isn't some hollywood "glorious war" bullshit. This is the Ukrainian people literally fighting for the very existence of their country, against an invading oppressor who is more than happy to commit wholesale atrocity to get what they want. You think the people fighting for Ukraine are concerned that giving them tanks may "escalate" the situation into causing more casualties? They are literally fighting someone who's stated goal is the absolute destruction of their country and killing as many of them as possible. Victory for the Russians will result in far more casualties than any escalation from the Ukraine side ever could. So absolutely. Give them anything short of weapons of mass destruction, because I guarantee you that they would be far happier to die while using a tank to defend their homeland than not.

[YUPPIE]

Yes, it's known what would happen. RuZZkies would rage about it, and their terrorist presence in Ukraine would be terminated. That's all. They are not going to have their country glassed over....you know, having their country intact as it was before this terrorist venture.

Well by your analysis or assumptions, that makes the US look worse. The fact there are supposedly no consequences if we step in and know it, yet aren’t despite civilians being raped and killed every day.

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But currently, there are a lot of US boots all over the eastern NATO borders, as well as of other NATO members.

that's fine to russia; relatively speaking.

[Veggie50]

Well by your analysis or assumptions, that makes the US look worse. The fact there are supposedly no consequences if we step in and know it, yet aren’t despite civilians being raped and killed every day.

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that's fine to russia; relatively speaking.

The reason the USA doesnt is because of a lot of things…

- USA is not the world police
- USA would have to justify loss of american lives to its population
- NATO would lose credibility as a purely defensive coalition

Note how none of these are “Putin scares the USA”