1. #28161
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    the one ultimate non-imaginary red line, the one absolute truth, is US soldiers' feet on the ground in Ukraine. That is what hasn't been crossed for good reason. That is the line the US cares for. Everything else is whatever/bluster.

    And also, more than NATO and the US, I would expect absolutely nothing out of the UN.
    Yes comrad, this is ultimate totally not imaginary red line. Not at all like pur previous ultimate non imaginary red lines! This ones for real comrad. If you cross it, we will unleash our REAL military, instead of this joking around we’ve been doing.

  2. #28162
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    If you cross it, we will unleash our REAL military
    you already know what would actually happen if Western forces put boots on Ukrainian ground, man. If that too was bluster, this war would already be over.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  3. #28163
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    Complete tangent.

    That looks like bran new ammo, in a Russian caliber, with English factory labeling. That's some of that ammo Romania/Bulgaria/Slovakia etc have been churning out for Ukraine.
    I've read that some might be from Pakistan, which Indian press has quickly linked to the F16 fighter package that was greenlit last year, despite the tense history between the US and Pakistan given the latters involvment with the Taliban, Al-Quaida and China.
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    ~ Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang, "Ethics for Tomorrow"

  4. #28164
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    you already know what would actually happen if Western forces put boots on Ukrainian ground, man. If that too was bluster, this war would already be over.
    That is the whole thing. This whole thing is a game of street football and the kid that owns the ball is really bad at the game and if they lose too badly, they will take the ball and go home and then come back with their dad's AR15 and try to kill everyone that was playing.

    If the West wanted to, we could BTFO russia tomorrow.

  5. #28165
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    you already know what would actually happen if Western forces put boots on Ukrainian ground, man. If that too was bluster, this war would already be over.
    Yes, it's known what would happen. RuZZkies would rage about it, and their terrorist presence in Ukraine would be terminated. That's all. They are not going to have their country glassed over....you know, having their country intact as it was before this terrorist venture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  6. #28166
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang View Post
    I've read that some might be from Pakistan, which Indian press has quickly linked to the F16 fighter package that was greenlit last year, despite the tense history between the US and Pakistan given the latters involvment with the Taliban, Al-Quaida and China.
    Yeah, I recently read that Pakistan had delivered 150 pallets of ammo to Ukraine, not sure what or how much that is, but still.

  7. #28167
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    But was the situation bad enough to warrant tanks? I would say yes if I was in Ukraine because I would want all tools available to defend my phone. Is it right for NATO to push weapons they know will escalate the war and get more Ukrainians killed if Ukraine was handling business without the tanks. I also stopped following the war closely so idk.

    Its like you see a person being bullied so you teach them how to fight. The person is able to defend themselves but now has to fight to keep from getting bullied. You give the person a knife so now they dont have to fight as hard knowing their bully will likely get a knife as well and was waiting for an excuse to use said knife. The kid you helped will now forever face unique consequences whether the bully stops or not, things like people coming at them to steal their knife or having to live with the life long consequences of being stabbed if/when they get stabbed.

    I'm leaning on the side of "fuck it, give them more tanks" but I'm saying that as someone an world away that doesn't have to deal with the consequences of an escalated war and the fallout.
    You know, I can possibly, just vaguely possibly, see how one might imagine this as a possible thing to consider, if, say, this were a "glorious" war. You know, the kind of war ignorant people who's only exposure to the subject has been old hollywood war dramas where the good guys and bad guys duke it out all nice and proper like, army to army, and the victor defeats the bad guy, and everything is ok.

    But here's the thing. This isn't some hollywood "glorious war" bullshit. This is the Ukrainian people literally fighting for the very existence of their country, against an invading oppressor who is more than happy to commit wholesale atrocity to get what they want. You think the people fighting for Ukraine are concerned that giving them tanks may "escalate" the situation into causing more casualties? They are literally fighting someone who's stated goal is the absolute destruction of their country and killing as many of them as possible. Victory for the Russians will result in far more casualties than any escalation from the Ukraine side ever could. So absolutely. Give them anything short of weapons of mass destruction, because I guarantee you that they would be far happier to die while using a tank to defend their homeland than not.

  8. #28168
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Yes, it's known what would happen. RuZZkies would rage about it, and their terrorist presence in Ukraine would be terminated. That's all. They are not going to have their country glassed over....you know, having their country intact as it was before this terrorist venture.
    Well by your analysis or assumptions, that makes the US look worse. The fact there are supposedly no consequences if we step in and know it, yet aren’t despite civilians being raped and killed every day.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    But currently, there are a lot of US boots all over the eastern NATO borders, as well as of other NATO members.
    that's fine to russia; relatively speaking.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  9. #28169
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Well by your analysis or assumptions, that makes the US look worse. The fact there are supposedly no consequences if we step in and know it, yet aren’t despite civilians being raped and killed every day.

    - - - Updated - - -


    that's fine to russia; relatively speaking.
    The reason the USA doesnt is because of a lot of things…

    - USA is not the world police
    - USA would have to justify loss of american lives to its population
    - NATO would lose credibility as a purely defensive coalition

    Note how none of these are “Putin scares the USA”

  10. #28170
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    you already know what would actually happen if Western forces put boots on Ukrainian ground, man. If that too was bluster, this war would already be over.
    Nothing? Is that the answer? Because nothing is what Russia has done in the face of every single US/NATO "escalation" so far.

    What you are so subtly trying to say is that Russia would throw nukes if US troops went into Ukraine. That somehow that is the final "red line" for them. And that's horseshit. The only point where Russia might genuinely consider nukes is if US/NATO go into Russian soil, and that is NEVER going to happen.

    If things get to the point where the West sends forces into Ukraine to actively assist in the defence, then Russia will do precisely sod all. Hell, they might even pull back to avoid the chance of getting into an active fire-fight with them. Because they know they are wildly outmatched in any conflict, and they would be starting something that would finish very quickly and very bloodily for their troops.

    It's still unlikely that will happen. Because the US doing it unilaterally looks bad, and NATO (as many people have previously explained) is a defensive pact. But stop pretending that ANYTHING happening in Ukraine will end up with Russia throwing nukes. There are no scenarios where that happens.

    There are plenty of scenarios where they might threaten it. But that's a different matter.
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  11. #28171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    The only point where Russia might genuinely consider nukes is if US/NATO go into Russian soil, and that is NEVER going to happen.
    I would add "or what they perceive to be rightful russian soil", probably not Donbas, Zaporizhzhia or Kherson, but Crimea...eh, maybe?

  12. #28172
    This dead russian seriously doesn't look older than 12.

    https://twitter.com/yalpski/status/1618713824496091139

  13. #28173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    This dead russian seriously doesn't look older than 12.

    https://twitter.com/yalpski/status/1618713824496091139
    Jezus fuck...are they *trying* to kill off every male russian?

  14. #28174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Jezus fuck...are they *trying* to kill off every male russian?
    INB4 "disgusting Ukrainians killing children" narrative.
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  15. #28175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    INB4 "disgusting Ukrainians killing children" narrative.
    I actually meant the russian leadership....but yeah I can see how my words were ill chosen.

  16. #28176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    I actually meant the russian leadership....but yeah I can see how my words were ill chosen.
    Yes, I get what you meant. What I said there was how some putinistas will easily spin this news around.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #28177
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    This dead russian seriously doesn't look older than 12.

    https://twitter.com/yalpski/status/1618713824496091139
    Is there anything actually indicating this is real?

    This has been as much a war of propaganda and misinformation as anything else, so I'm fairly extremely skeptical of most of these apparently total randos.

  18. #28178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Is there anything actually indicating this is real?

    This has been as much a war of propaganda and misinformation as anything else, so I'm fairly extremely skeptical of most of these apparently total randos.
    If it's propaganda, I'd imagine it's by Ukraine. Can't really think what Russia would gain from showing pictures of children and tell how they died in military duty.
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  19. #28179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    If it's propaganda, I'd imagine it's by Ukraine. Can't really think what Russia would gain from showing pictures of children and tell how they died in military duty.
    As Makabreska said: "Evil Nazi Ukrainians killing innocent heroic, patriotic russian children.", quite devious.

  20. #28180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    As Makabreska said: "Evil Nazi Ukrainians killing innocent heroic, patriotic russian children.", quite devious.
    Pretty sure you'd leave the military part out altogether, if it was for propaganda purposes by Russia. It makes for a much better message, if it was just an innocent little boy, murdered by Ukrainians/Nazis. The military part just waters down the entire message, imo. Not to mention raising unfortunate questions on why the hell is it necessary to have literal children in the army in the first place. That's not a good look for an army whose entire shtick is to look strong.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

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