Russian invasion of Ukraine

[ringpriest]

Turkey isn't sabotaging Sweden on behest of Russia. Erdogan is playing domestic politics appealing to the nationalists who hate the Kurds and to the religious conservatives who just want someone "stronk" to defend the Quran.

Turkey gives exactly zero fucks about what Putin wants.

This. Erdogan has a long and complicated history with the Kurds, and he will leverage the desire of Sweden and Finland to join NATO for everything he can possibly get on that front.

[Iphie]

Also it's not the first time Russia, specifically Putin, has bombed their own civilians in a false flag as justification to go to / continue a war with an ex-soviet state. At least they were nice enough to announce it this time before bombing those three hospitals.

The article says that russia claims Ukraine will blow up stuff in Kramatorsk...which is an Ukrainian city. So the false flag wouldn't even be their own civilians, it would just be russia blowing up Ukrainians again.

[Azadina]

Turkey isn't sabotaging Sweden on behest of Russia. Erdogan is playing domestic politics appealing to the nationalists who hate the Kurds and to the religious conservatives who just want someone "stronk" to defend the Quran.

Turkey gives exactly zero fucks about what Putin wants.

That's nice and all, but Hungary is blowing Putler the great.

[Xyonai]

The article says that russia claims Ukraine will blow up stuff in Kramatorsk...which is an Ukrainian city. So the false flag wouldn't even be their own civilians, it would just be russia blowing up Ukrainians again.

That it does, I seem to have missed that part. So really they're going to keep doing more of the same except blame Ukraine this time.

[Xarkan]

Turkey isn't sabotaging Sweden on behest of Russia. Erdogan is playing domestic politics appealing to the nationalists who hate the Kurds and to the religious conservatives who just want someone "stronk" to defend the Quran.

Turkey gives exactly zero fucks about what Putin wants.

Hungary also have not approved Sweden / Finland joining i think..

At least accourding to this random link https://www.nato-pa.int/content/finl...eden-accession

[Veggie50]

See, before I thought it was important to always cite whenever their key people talked - because I thought they would carry out said threats, but it's gradually winded down.

That said, Russia is planning to bomb more civilians in a false-flag operation today right after Zelenksy swore an oath in public that he would not use the recent long-ranged missiles to strike Moscow.

It is very important to you that everyone heres the kremlins propaganda isnt it Rusbot?

[YUPPIE]

it is important we have what the Kremlin has to say only so it doesn't catch anyone off guard when they do some insane bullshit like this false flag operation or the planned monthly all-out assault.

For instance, the fact I cited it opened a conversation and awareness. We must always be aware of their planned antics.

[Saradain]

it is important we have what the Kremlin has to say only so it doesn't catch anyone off guard when they do some insane bullshit like this false flag operation or the planned monthly all-out assault.

For instance, the fact I cited it opened a conversation and awareness. We must always be aware of their planned antics.

...Why does MMO-Champion need to know Kremlin propaganda? Nothing we do or discuss will change the course of the war. Purposefully spreading fearmongering and outright lies just serves Putin because we in fact have some bellends here who preach and believe that shit to the fullest

We absolutely do not need to know Kremlin propaganda, it is available for anyone on the internet by a simple Google search or just reading unbiased, trustworthy medias who report that on the side while countering the said propaganda with facts.

No one at this point is ever caught off-guard when Russia murders yet another civilian in the thousands. It is never justified, it cannot be, hence the word civilian.

[YUPPIE]

...Why does MMO-Champion need to know Kremlin propaganda? Nothing we do or discuss will change the course of the war. Purposefully spreading fearmongering and outright lies just serves Putin because we in fact have some bellends here who preach and believe that shit to the fullest

We absolutely do not need to know Kremlin propaganda, it is available for anyone on the internet by a simple Google search or just reading unbiased, trustworthy medias who report that on the side while countering the said propaganda with facts.

No one at this point is ever caught off-guard when Russia murders yet another civilian in the thousands. It is never justified, it cannot be, hence the word civilian.

also, I watch/read Russian state TV and Kremlin propaganda. It's wayyyy different from what I post, which are just warnings to their attacks and plans.

It oes on and on about nuclear rhetoric, aliens, anti-Western jargon and other illogical bullshit that I have never spouted other than the nuclear talk - which I stopped doing a long time ago.

[Saradain]

also, I watch/read Russian state TV and Kremlin propaganda. It's wayyyy different from what I post, which are just warnings to their attacks and plans.

It oes on and on about nuclear rhetoric, aliens, anti-Western jargon and other illogical bullshit that I have never spouted other than the nuclear talk - which I stopped doing a long time ago.

We both know Russian TV and Kremlin shit is also entirely false, that propaganda is aimed at russians themselves. Because the only reason a country that size, with that population, can act like this is because its people are either vastly unaware of what their military is doing, or they fully accept it. Both are bad options.

You will never find accurate, actual military plans announced in russian state TV.

Come on.

You think foreign intelligence agencies would not be monitoring the very same stuff?

The only reason state TV and Kremlin spouts this shit so they can fool stupid countries of the world that they are just trying to do something positive...And that russian people would not overthrow the goverment. The goverment needs its people to stay rich and alive, while abusing the same civilian population of theirs in the process.

[Corvus]

The only reason to ever pay any attention to anything on russian media is when mocking it for its insanity.

[Gorsameth]

Turkey isn't sabotaging Sweden on behest of Russia. Erdogan is playing domestic politics appealing to the nationalists who hate the Kurds and to the religious conservatives who just want someone "stronk" to defend the Quran.

Turkey gives exactly zero fucks about what Putin wants.

I was more talking about Hungary (Orban) blocking. And sure he said he might ratify it at some point in the coming months but talk is cheap.

[Cynical Asshole]

I was more talking about Hungary (Orban) blocking. And sure he said he might ratify it at some point in the coming months but talk is cheap.

Austria, Hungary, and Serbia are Putin's ass kissers in Europe. I would expect them to do anything that serves Putin's interests in a significant way, as well as push pro-Russian propaganda 24/7.

[Santti]

Austria, Hungary, and Serbia are Putin's ass kissers in Europe. I would expect them to do anything that serves Putin's interests in a significant way, as well as push pro-Russian propaganda 24/7.

I'd imagine the countries that have traditionally seen Russia more favorably are going to start looking elsewhere. Russia is just no good right now. It revealed it's poker hand, and all it got was a joker, a get-out-of-jail-free and a Magus of the Vineyard from Magic: The Gathering.

[Nymrohd]

I'd imagine the countries that have traditionally seen Russia more favorably are going to start looking elsewhere. Russia is just no good right now. It revealed it's poker hand, and all it got was a joker, a get-out-of-jail-free and a Magus of the Vineyard from Magic: The Gathering.

Not likely when it comes to Serbia but then again, no one cares about Serbia. Whether what happened was right or wrong, hatred for NATO and the US is just part of Serbian culture at this point and the only one who they perceive as having their back (they don't but what can you do about it) is Russia.

With Hungary I'd say that things could rapidly change if they ever get rid of Orban but I don't really see much will to get rid of Orban. The people still want them.

[Iphie]

Not likely when it comes to Serbia but then again, no one cares about Serbia. Whether what happened was right or wrong, hatred for NATO and the US is just part of Serbian culture at this point and the only one who they perceive as having their back (they don't but what can you do about it) is Russia.

With Hungary I'd say that things could rapidly change if they ever get rid of Orban but I don't really see much will to get rid of Orban. The people still want them.

That, or he just is smarter than your average tin pot dictator in that he doesn't rig elections into ridiculousness. I don't actually think that, but if a dictator would rig the elections to win by 52% you'd leave just enough plausibility to have people think it's legit. As for Serbia, they've recently been less happy with russia and they're even going so far as to say that Crimea and the Donbas are legal parts of Ukraine, which isn't exactly supporting russia.

[Nymrohd]

That, or he just is smarter than your average tin pot dictator in that he doesn't rig elections into ridiculousness. I don't actually think that, but if a dictator would rig the elections to win by 52% you'd leave just enough plausibility to have people think it's legit. As for Serbia, they've recently been less happy with russia and they're even going so far as to say that Crimea and the Donbas are legal parts of Ukraine, which isn't exactly supporting russia.

They will still pick Russia over NATO and the US any given day. The trauma is quite significant and I honestly don't blame them for it (because really, most people were not to blame but they all got their infrastructure, hospitals and schools bombed).

As for Orban, he seems to have capitalized on the culture war and the strongman narrative quite well. Now the EU will increasingly shut down the cash flows and that will hurt but will it be enough? I personally doubt it.

[jonnysensible]

As for Orban, he seems to have capitalized on the culture war and the strongman narrative quite well. Now the EU will increasingly shut down the cash flows and that will hurt but will it be enough? I personally doubt it.

Its quite funny, he rigs the democracy by controlling the media and harassing opponents. He runs on a nativist/nationalist platform that is ENTIRELY dependent on EU money. They should cut him off.

The funny part for brits is that our far right brexiteers always complained that the EU was a political union and not just an economic one, but its been entirely clear that the EU cares more about economics than political values.

[Nymrohd]

Its quite funny, he rigs the democracy by controlling the media and harassing opponents. He runs on a nativist/nationalist platform that is ENTIRELY dependent on EU money. They should cut him off.

The funny part for brits is that our far right brexiteers always complained that the EU was a political union and not just an economic one, but its been entirely clear that the EU cares more about economics than political values.

The business of the EU has always been business.

[Elder Millennial]

I was more talking about Hungary (Orban) blocking. And sure he said he might ratify it at some point in the coming months but talk is cheap.

Orban will moan, will do a bunch of domestic propaganda, then vote along with whatever is put in front of him.

Hungary's geopolitical situation is such that it has next to no actual influence and is deeply deeply dependent on the EU. While his domestic policies are a nuisance for the EU, it's more of an optics problem. But once you start hindering the foreign policy interests and the domestic politics of the rest of the EU then you're stepping on toes, and Hungary just doesn't have the weight to get away with it.

Turkey does.

Serbia is irrelevant.

And Austria...Austria is neck deep in the neutrality copium.