Russian invasion of Ukraine

[jonnysensible]

Who is "we". Because I sure bet you aren't the one going to do the fighting, which is the bottom line.

It is really the bottom line here. Are you actually ready to fight over Ukraine as in fight fight and send actual soldiers that may die to do so?

Putin does what he does because he simply very reasonably assumes that no EU country or US will actually do any sort of fighting over Ukraine. Sanctions-shmanctions, Russia seen worse and because of the whole energy crisis and being key and in many East EU states the only realistic gas supplier - Putin knows he even won't really get balls to the wall sanctions, despite chest thumping by various PMs/presidents/etc.

There is no "the world" here, because Ukraine is not important enough for "the world" to actually act on.

fuck you settler cunt

[Barzotti]

fuck you settler cunt

But he's 100% right.

[Crispin]

Sucks that the world is basically just letting this happen. I get it, the alternative is WW3. It's just shit that a European nation is being invaded and we're sending thoughts and prayers.

Well what else do you suggest? You know what the alternative is, but think it's shit it's all we're doing?

A non-NATO non-EU member is pretty much fucked. Putin knows this, and I see no reason to defend a country, that never joined either, and therefore never commited to defend any of either NATO or EU members.

[LilSaihah]

I just do not understand the goals of this - okay, you march in to Kyiv, you install puppet government and then what - patrol and control a giant country of that size indefinitely?

From what I understand of the situation, it's mainly strategic. Eastern Ukraine is (this is second hand information so forgive me if it's not 100% accurate) mostly flat plains, and turning thousands of kilometers of flatlands into a few chokepoints along the Dnieper river is infinitely more defensible. The Ukrainian eastern border would also be a good place from which to choke off access to the Caucasus, so denying that denial would be important if there were any major conflicts aimed at Russia.

[alkyd]

So many keyboard warriors here. Guys, just go to Ukraine and volunteer already.

[DarkAmbient]

Nah, the "you can't advocate military action unless you're willing to fight on the lines" thing has always been bullshit.

[OnlineSamantha]

I'm incredibly unfit for military service because of my mental illness. Does that mean I can't have an opinion on this besides "we should do nothing"?

[alkyd]

I'm incredibly unfit for military service because of my mental illness. Does that mean I can't have an opinion on this besides "we should do nothing"?

Talking about those who cry about that US and EU should do something about it, yet they do nothing themselves.

[Makabreska]

In announcing a major military operation, Russian President Vladimir Putin deflected global condemnation and cascading new sanctions — and chillingly referred to his country’s nuclear arsenal as he threatened any foreign country attempting to interfere with “consequences you have never seen.”

Is the guy officially unhinged? And all of this hate, anger and entitlement because Ukraine "dared" to move away from Russia influence. This is such a Cold War soviet mentality our ex-KGB dude shows I don't even anymore.

[Crispin]

In announcing a major military operation, Russian President Vladimir Putin deflected global condemnation and cascading new sanctions — and chillingly referred to his country’s nuclear arsenal as he threatened any foreign country attempting to interfere with “consequences you have never seen.”

I'm sure he knows that neither NATO nor the USA or EU will fight in Ukraine. It's a free round of "Russia Stronk!"

[DarkAmbient]

"Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brain." Who was it who said that again...

[Gorsameth]

Who is "we". Because I sure bet you aren't the one going to do the fighting, which is the bottom line.

It is really the bottom line here. Are you actually ready to fight over Ukraine as in fight fight and send actual soldiers that may die to do so?

Putin does what he does because he simply very reasonably assumes that no EU country or US will actually do any sort of fighting over Ukraine. Sanctions-shmanctions, Russia seen worse and because of the whole energy crisis and being key and in many East EU states the only realistic gas supplier - Putin knows he even won't really get balls to the wall sanctions, despite chest thumping by various PMs/presidents/etc.

There is no "the world" here, because Ukraine is not important enough for "the world" to actually act on.

Ironically the way to prevent war is to be ready to wage war.

As I already said, the fact that no one is willing to go to war over Ukraine is why he is invading in the first place. The way to prevent the Ukraine invasion is to actually be willing to go to war and yes for soldiers to fight and die if need be. To be committed to preventing another war in Europe requires the willingness to have a war.

Its the same principle as MAD. it only works if both sides are willing to push the button, causing neither side to be willing to do it. If one side never wants to press the button the other side gets to go whatever they want.
Putin is doing this because he knows we won't press that button.

[Jessicka]

I thought the consensus here was that the US (at least) needs to stop getting involved? Now they want them to do more?

Because if we're honest about things, "getting involved" before generally meant with the same kind of jumped up pretext, albeit slightly higher effort, that Russia is using now.

The major exception was probably way back in Bosnia, but too many of those with an imperialist mindset kind of abused that.

[alkyd]

I thought the consensus here was that the US (at least) needs to stop getting involved? Now they want them to do more?

Just an example of keyboard warriors I am talking about

All we can hope for now is thousands of Russian bodybags and crying mothers in Moscow. Until the people of Russia rise up and oust their dictator they deserve no more pity than those German soldiers who sheepishly followed Hitler into genocide. The west must do everything to deeply hurt Russia for this. We need to provide all the weapons and intelligence Ukraine needs to make Russia bleed

China just announced they are starting to import wheat from Russia.

[Ulmita]

How to bring down Ukraine with no soldier stepping a single meter into their soil:
-Bomb all airports (military and not) by launching barrages of cruise missiles, to pin down enemy airforce. Current capacity from just the ships gathered in black sea, amounts a bit less than 700 kalibr in a single salvo launch.
- Commence SEAD (No defending AA has managed to stop an enemy SEAD so far in the history of mankind)
- RAF goes in and takes out key infrastructure: power grid, public buildings, and highways/railways

Chaos commences, country bankrupts in a matter of weeks, government falls etc.

As you can see Russia has the capacity of folding Ukraine in pieces, without risking casualties (at least no so many as you think)

https://twitter.com/GeneralStaffUA/s...17103340462084

1. Kalibr barrages took down airfields and ammo depots.
2. SEAD should be in progress as I type this.
3. Next will be bombers, bombing the heck out of Ukrainian positions.
It's over after #2

[Gaidax]

Nah, the "you can't advocate military action unless you're willing to fight on the lines" thing has always been bullshit.

Fighting is sure a great option as long as you're not the doing it. Also gives you great free points on a gamer forum for stronks, nice circlejerks too - big copium.

[Crispin]

Ironically the way to prevent war is to be ready to wage war.

Sorry but history shows otherwise.

[Makabreska]

Welp, Champions League finals in Russia cancelled. Good guy Putin did wait after all till the end of the Olympics to start the war.

[Puzzony]

Well what else do you suggest? You know what the alternative is, but think it's shit it's all we're doing?

A non-NATO non-EU member is pretty much fucked. Putin knows this, and I see no reason to defend a country, that never joined either, and therefore never commited to defend any of either NATO or EU members.

It didnt join NATO because the Putin-slave gangster thief hungarian government vetoed its request to join due to Putin ordering cocksucker Orban to veto. Not as if they didnt want to join since forever..

[Gaidax]

Ironically the way to prevent war is to be ready to wage war.

As I already said, the fact that no one is willing to go to war over Ukraine is why he is invading in the first place. The way to prevent the Ukraine invasion is to actually be willing to go to war and yes for soldiers to fight and die if need be. To be committed to preventing another war in Europe requires the willingness to have a war.

Its the same principle as MAD. it only works if both sides are willing to push the button, causing neither side to be willing to do it. If one side never wants to press the button the other side gets to go whatever they want.
Putin is doing this because he knows we won't press that button.

Yes, you have designated the problem.

But what's the solution then? What, you think some random Bob, Josh or Meg from Los Angeles or Boston want to go grab that gun and/or foot the bill for some war they don't care about half a globe away? No they don't, same way I don't want to because for me - hell, it's not even in top 20 of my priorities in life and I was frikkin' born in Ukraine.

Same goes for much of Western Europe too - they care more about buying that bigger car for the family, mortgage or heck rising energy prices for that matter. Only East Europe and practically Baltics actually want something tough, because they are next in line on a bad day.

It's practically the reality.

But sure - can always act big and tough on them gaming forums, that has no actual cost whatsoever and makes one look cool and big and part of something.


And politicians are keenly aware of this all with clock ticking towards re-elections. So yeah big stronk talks, little actual action that can actually help if cost of it will be votes in next elections.