1. #29401
    the situation in bakhmut is why I always am cautious of the stories of Ukraine's successes. We don't know of the bad shit going down, only ever of them shitting on Russians. I understand the need to keep morale up, though.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  2. #29402
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    the situation in bakhmut is why I always am cautious of the stories of Ukraine's successes. We don't know of the bad shit going down, only ever of them shitting on Russians. I understand the need to keep morale up, though.
    I mean, even when Bakhmut falls (The situation's not looking good for them in terms of holding it on) they still managed to stall Russia's advance there for almost an entire year because Wagner fuckboys couldn't adapt to tactics beyond throwing bodies into a wall of bullets and artillery. Like yeah they'll take the city, but only after sacrificing way more soldiers then any reasonable military would waste on such an operation. And then what? Could they use it as a staging area for other offenses? Probably, but with what men and what equipment? They've stranded themselves with severely diminished capacity for a symbolic victory that only they care about.

  3. #29403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    then I apologize for sounding condescending. I know I did mention that Russians deserve better and I thought the ussr simp was a dig at me, but if it wasn't then thats fine. I don't want to see Russia annihilated because of the ego of one man. at the same time I do want what is best for everyone.
    I understand I kinda just drop that post with directly mentioning edges mostly cause of not hitting refresh between when I read their post and when I posted, and yes I agree the average Russian citizen deserves better, and yes different political parties are important even if some are extremely different in ideology.

  4. #29404
    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    with what men and what equipment?
    don't know of how Russia is going to replenish its bodies, but as far as equipment is concerned, I don't think it's gone unnoticed here that China has been preparing to send lethal military aid (i.e, bullets, missiles) to Russia.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  5. #29405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustedsaint View Post
    That was aimed more at edge post about Matt gaets and how he’s obviously is on Russian payroll. Admittedly the days I was referring to were during the cold war at the height of anti communist, comments that Matt gaets makes would have probably ended up him being removed office.
    To be fair, the Red Scare days with McCarthy's communist witch hunting were not exactly a high point in the more recent US history that one should feel nostalgic for. Gaetz is an evil clown who has no business in government, but if they're not going to remove him from office for soliciting underage sex, there's not much else that will do it.

  6. #29406
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    don't know of how Russia is going to replenish its bodies, but as far as equipment is concerned, I don't think it's gone unnoticed here that China has been preparing to send lethal military aid (i.e, bullets, missiles) to Russia.
    are they?

  7. #29407
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    no one wants that frozen tundra
    I think that in due time that frozen tundra will become extremely valuable, if the global average temperature keeps rising those tundra's will turn into fertile plains. While the land of most of their neighbors desertifies more and more. creating their much desired buffer zone. The fact that Putin has shown zero interest toward developing inner Russia was always proof to me that the man didn't care for the future of his country. By weakening Russia the way Putin is doing right now he's not only destroying his own reputation but also setting up Russia for future conflicts.
    Last edited by P for Pancetta; 2023-03-01 at 12:58 AM.

  8. #29408
    oh totally, I think the point was mostly that no country is plotting to invade Russia while this is exactly what putin claims is happening. it just doesn't seem to mesh with reality. there is a hell of a lot of double think going on over there just baffling mental gymnastics. the level of cranial distortion you need to pull to make these talking point seem like an actual possibility. they've fooled themselves into believing everyone sees them as their enemy. I mean putin knows everyone in the west is not his most popular supporters but he seems to portray the hate aimed at him as some sort of vendetta against Russia as a whole. to me it seems perfectly valid to dislike a mentally deranged dictator for throwing his own ppl into a meat grinder for absolutely nothing. its absolutely profound to me that russians haven't gotten rid of this guy. elect someone who won't send you all to die maybe. seems like the better option for the majority of russians, geez has the brain drain hit them that hard. anyone with a double digit IQ left in russia. I guess not?

    not going to pretend like we the west are complete saints and aren't doing our own propaganda shtick but I can't see it being as blatantly untrue as the smoke hes been blowing up everyones ass. it puts things into perspective when you live in a part of the world where your leaders are actually accountable. (at least to some degree) i mean if our propaganda started being half as bullshit as whats being spun over there, it would be far too easy to point out that it is indeed, bullshit. meanwhile no one will get gulag'd for doing that.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2023-03-01 at 02:03 AM.

  9. #29409
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    are they?
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cia-dir...ia-lethal-aid/
    https://www.voanews.com/a/us-sees-ev...a/6977611.html

    Some citations since you're not caught up.

    The United States has seen evidence that the People's Republic of China is considering sending lethal weapons to Russia for its use in the war in Ukraine, and has directly warned China of consequences, according to a senior State Department official.

    "We obviously have a reason to be concerned," Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman told VOA in an interview on Thursday. She stopped short of elaborating on details when asked if there is evidence that Beijing is considering sending lethal aid to Moscow.

    Sherman sat down with VOA State Department bureau chief Nike Ching on Thursday as Russia's war on Ukraine neared its one-year mark.

    The State Department's second most senior official said the U.S. has warned China directly of consequences.

    "If the People's Republic of China provides lethal support to Russia, then it becomes a co-belligerent in many ways, and … there would be consequences," Sherman told VOA.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  10. #29410
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cia-dir...ia-lethal-aid/
    https://www.voanews.com/a/us-sees-ev...a/6977611.html

    Some citations since you're not caught up.

    The United States has seen evidence that the People's Republic of China is considering sending lethal weapons to Russia for its use in the war in Ukraine, and has directly warned China of consequences, according to a senior State Department official.

    "We obviously have a reason to be concerned," Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman told VOA in an interview on Thursday. She stopped short of elaborating on details when asked if there is evidence that Beijing is considering sending lethal aid to Moscow.

    Sherman sat down with VOA State Department bureau chief Nike Ching on Thursday as Russia's war on Ukraine neared its one-year mark.

    The State Department's second most senior official said the U.S. has warned China directly of consequences.

    "If the People's Republic of China provides lethal support to Russia, then it becomes a co-belligerent in many ways, and … there would be consequences," Sherman told VOA.
    so no then

  11. #29411
    Considering is not the same as actually doing. I consider things on a daily basis but never do them. And right now, the last thing China wants is to get in a trade war given the problems they are having with their economy. And if they did send anything, it wouldn't take long for examples of it to fall into Ukrainian hands, and from there into Western hands. Do they really want people poking around in their vehicles etc to find out how bad they are?

    And while this is going on, China released a new map, one in which they used Chinese names for regions of russia's far east, including reverting back to using the Chinese name for Vladivostok....

    While things are difficult at Bakhmut, Ukraine has said they are moving fresh units there. Which means they haven't given up on it yet.

    Plus more long range explosions are going on deep behind the lines. The latest is an airfield at Yesk, 150km+ from the frontlines. First russia said it was a training exercise before saying nothing happened at all. There has been an uptick in explosiosn behind the line, reminiscent of the shaping campaigns that went on prior to previous Ukrainian attacks.

    Meanwhile, it has been some time since the last russian missile or Iranian drone attacks as well.

    And this is amusing - little russia (aka Serbia), sold 3500 long range GRAD rockets to a 3rd party (Canada reportedly), who then shipped them to Ukraine.

  12. #29412
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    the Russian ppl deserve a better leader, its such a shame the country was on the cusp of being a legitimate world player, they have so much land they could be leaders in renewable energy. its the largest single country on the planet and yet i'm sure it has one of the smallest population densities, they have so much space for things like solar and wind farms. they could be leading the charge. but instead they'd rather eat glue. worst yet it might not get better even if putin is gone. apparently we all hate russians and yet I watch https://www.youtube.com/@roman_nfkrz < romans videos quite frequently and have no ill will toward any average russian. it bothers me that putin spins the hatred aimed at him as a generalisation against all Russians. its pretty easy to dislike a single person without hating an entire population.
    Every nation has the leader they deserve. Stop trying to excuse the Russian people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by P for Pancetta View Post
    I think that in due time that frozen tundra will become extremely valuable, if the global average temperature keeps rising those tundra's will turn into fertile plains. While the land of most of their neighbors desertifies more and more. creating their much desired buffer zone. The fact that Putin has shown zero interest toward developing inner Russia was always proof to me that the man didn't care for the future of his country. By weakening Russia the way Putin is doing right now he's not only destroying his own reputation but also setting up Russia for future conflicts.
    That frozen tundra will never be fertile land, simply because their continental climate sucks ass for agriculture.

  13. #29413
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    .

    "If the People's Republic of China provides lethal support to Russia, then it becomes a co-belligerent in many ways, and … there would be consequences," Sherman told VOA.
    Ok, but this feels a bit hypocritical, I'm pretty sure no one here considers the west co-belligerents for providing lethal aid to Ukraine, so China providing lethal aid to russia shouldn't make them co-belligerents either. Shouldn't it?

  14. #29414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Ok, but this feels a bit hypocritical, I'm pretty sure no one here considers the west co-belligerents for providing lethal aid to Ukraine, so China providing lethal aid to russia shouldn't make them co-belligerents either. Shouldn't it?
    I think China is far more... wary, in a way, of international backlash aimed at them for supporting Russia than any other country is about aiding Ukraine.

    My impression of China's take going into this (Remember Putin priming Xi that it was going to happen) was that they mostly took Russia at its word that this was going to be a "three day war" and were prepared to look the other way expecting that the international blowback would be minimal and that business would continue on more or less as usual. That obviously did not happen.

    And China's growing dissatisfaction at the disruption to international politics/commerce, the relative strengthening of NATO, and heightened international attention put on larger countries trying to subsume smaller ones has been palpable. Their support for Russia has been purely for show, as they've contributed absolutely diddly squat towards the war effort. @Shalcker liked to harp on what a strong alliance Russia and China had; I provided numerous sources directly from Chinese officials basically saying they knew Russia had fucked up the situation irreparably and had no good roads out (that Shalcker conveniently ignored repeatedly, leading me to assume I had touched on something quite damning.) So I doubt China wants to lay down in the bed Russia so thoroughly shat in, especially at this point.

    And while "the west" is reliant upon China in many obvious ways, you could say the same for many European countries vis-a-vis Russia prior to this. Russia thought it had the greater EU basically paralyzed into inaction by their reliance upon Russian energy sources. That clearly turned out to be a rather poor estimation on Russia's part. And if the EU can undergo a major overhaul in their energy infrastructure in little over a year, who's to say what other countries could muster to cut China out of their reliances?


    And frankly, China has no real reason to interject on Russia's behalf. As Russia weakens, China's regional power increases. I'm sure Russia will be needing bailouts for various industries and infrastructure in the coming decades, and China will be more than happy to leverage decidedly-predatory loans towards "helping" Russia back on its feet.

    If anything this message is aimed at Russia more than China, to show how alone Russia is internationally because China isn't actually going to help them.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  15. #29415
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was more hung up on the idea that helping one side would not make the aid suppliers co-belligerents, but helping the other side would. (as long as the aid consists of weapons and not men.)

    Anyway, apparently Serbia is providing weapons to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/sta...37393182113816

    https://www.serbianmonitor.com/en/ho...up-in-ukraine/

    Not entirely sure how reliable these two are but there's more chatter about it on telegram.

  16. #29416
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Yeah, I was more hung up on the idea that helping one side would not make the aid suppliers co-belligerents, but helping the other side would. (as long as the aid consists of weapons and not men.)

    Anyway, apparently Serbia is providing weapons to Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPR/sta...37393182113816

    https://www.serbianmonitor.com/en/ho...up-in-ukraine/

    Not entirely sure how reliable these two are but there's more chatter about it on telegram.
    Yeah this makes no sense.

  17. #29417
    Not Serbia itself, but a manufacturer which sold it to Canada who then shipped it on to Ukraine.

  18. #29418
    Even then the Serbian government had to be aware. It's not going to be blind to arms exports to a country that is openly supplying Ukraine would end up in Ukraine.

    I'm guessing they're still pissed at Wagner advertising in Serbia.

  19. #29419
    Serbia has been trying to get into the EU for some time. Helping Ukraine is a way of scoring points. And despite all their links to Russia, even they can see Russia is losing and will not be able to flex their muscle abroad if the West holds steady.

  20. #29420
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Serbia has been trying to get into the EU for some time. Helping Ukraine is a way of scoring points. And despite all their links to Russia, even they can see Russia is losing and will not be able to flex their muscle abroad if the West holds steady.
    No Serbian government could possibly spin a pro-NATO position any time this century.

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