1. #29561
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    That is an act of war no?

    So legally, Belarus has entered the war. Which implies Belarus is now a valid military target.
    No, russia has fired missiles from Belarusian territory before, if it wasn't an act of war then it isn't now. IF it turns out to be Belarusians firing though then it's an act of war

  2. #29562
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    That is an act of war no?

    So legally, Belarus has entered the war. Which implies Belarus is now a valid military target.
    Technical yes, with a but. Firing back might seem the good idea but at the same time it might be just the right thing for Lukashenko to spin for the people and military to join in on Russian side fully.

    War is about being smart, not being emotional. Keeping Belarus as is keeps things stable enough and the focus to the south. Plus if the resistance in Belarus keeps hitting more targets and it can't be traced back to Ukraine then it will inspire more to join. Even though there's certainly talk between Ukraine and Belarus freedom groups even if hushed up.

  3. #29563
    That is indeed weirdly fucked up...

    ...So if Finland gets people from X country, with an arsenal of missiles...and they shoot them, from finnish soil, to Russia...

    It is not Finland's responsebility or fault.



    Really easy to have infinite loopholes then. Just claim the attacker was not of your country, no problem. In theory, at least.

    Every passing day, I start to care less and less what happens to Russia or Belarus, even if it affects or kills their civilians...

  4. #29564
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    That is indeed weirdly fucked up...

    ...So if Finland gets people from X country, with an arsenal of missiles...and they shoot them, from finnish soil, to Russia...

    It is not Finland's responsebility or fault.



    Really easy to have infinite loopholes then. Just claim the attacker was not of your country, no problem. In theory, at least.

    Every passing day, I start to care less and less what happens to Russia or Belarus, even if it affects or kills their civilians...
    Yes it's weird, and as Kallisto says you could probably construe it as an act of war, but then Ukraine should have done so the first time a missile came from the Belarusian side of the border.

    As for the latter part of your post, I truly understand that, and that is why I watch from time to time a russian youtuber who goes out on the street and asks people about the situation, it's refreshing to see russians who haven't gone completely bonkers and who, semi-openly, are willing to condemn putin and the "SMO", I'm not saying the channel isn't biased but he does show people on both sides, the majority he shows though are anti war. It's a small reminder for myself to not spiral into full blown ryssäviha when it comes ot civilians. (and civilians only! stuff the army and the government, if the soldeirs don't surrender the moment they arrive in Ukraine then the best they can do is fill their pockets with sunfflower seeds.)
    Last edited by Iphie; 2023-03-09 at 06:59 AM.

  5. #29565
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Even if it were to be considered an act of war, Ukraine doesn't benefit from an actual front opening up in the north with Belarus when they have the south to contend with at the same time.

    Spare those resources for holding against Russian attempts to seize the rest of Donetsk, while preparing for a drive down to the sea of Azov later to cut the land bridge in half.

  6. #29566
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Yes it's weird, and as Kallisto says you could probably construe it as an act of war, but then Ukraine should have done so the first time a missile came from the Belarusian side of the border.

    As for the latter part of your post, I truly understand that, and that is why I watch from time to time a russian youtuber who goes out on the street and asks people about the situation, it's refreshing to see russians who haven't gone completely bonkers and who, semi-openly, are willing to condemn putin and the "SMO", I'm not saying the channel isn't biased but he does show people on both sides, the majority he shows though are anti war. It's a small reminder for myself to not spiral into full blown ryssäviha when it comes ot civilians. (and civilians only! stuff the army and the government, if the soldeirs don't surrender the moment they arrive in Ukraine then the best they can do is fill their pockets with sunfflower seeds.)
    It is purely so for me, because the so-called rules of war seem to always favor the marauding band of rapist orcs, the attackers, while western bureaucracy is so goddamn slow that the ukrainian civilians pay with their blood for our failure to help when we clearly have the overwhelming strenght to do so.

    Russia can do whatever the fuck they want while limp-dicked bureaucrats twiddle their thumbs with long decades of useful idiots that have infiltrated all forms of goverment. And we can't do shit, because we are oh so democratic and free that we do not see the forest from the trees, as finns would say.

    Russians can speed up the slaughter of civilians, but if we speed up our military intervention, be it in form of aid or direct troops, we escalate the war. This world deserves to burn in hellfire.

    And preferably once Ukraine wins, including Crimea, Russia should burn for a centure as a lesson because clearly, violence is ALWAYS the answer for all problems.

  7. #29567
    Violence is the only language that RuZZkies actually understand. As seen throughout history. As such, it should be delivered to them in such a complete decimating and crushing way, that those who make it will forever be sickened at the mere thought of violence. It's the only way that terrorist thug nation ever joins civilisation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  8. #29568
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Violence is the only language that RuZZkies actually understand. As seen throughout history. As such, it should be delivered to them in such a complete decimating and crushing way, that those who make it will forever be sickened at the mere thought of violence. It's the only way that terrorist thug nation ever joins civilisation.
    I have no doubt that Nazi Russia will invade again if they are ever let to recover. And western coalition will be stuttering as they say: B-b-but Russia promised not-t-t to!!!

  9. #29569
    The situation with Belarus is a tricky one. Technically they are a co-belligerent, and if they fired the missiles that would be an act of war. But Belarus is largely an occupied country though. At the last elections, despite vote rigging, Luka lost. He refused to accept it and called in the russians to help crush protests. The Belarusians are not as backward as the russians.

    Ukraine could strike Belarus, and would be perfectly and lawfully justified in doing so, but there are optic issues with that, not to mention the fact they have hundreds, possibly thousands, of Belarusians fighting for them.

  10. #29570
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    It is purely so for me, because the so-called rules of war seem to always favor the marauding band of rapist orcs, the attackers, while western bureaucracy is so goddamn slow that the ukrainian civilians pay with their blood for our failure to help when we clearly have the overwhelming strenght to do so.

    Russia can do whatever the fuck they want while limp-dicked bureaucrats twiddle their thumbs with long decades of useful idiots that have infiltrated all forms of goverment. And we can't do shit, because we are oh so democratic and free that we do not see the forest from the trees, as finns would say.

    Russians can speed up the slaughter of civilians, but if we speed up our military intervention, be it in form of aid or direct troops, we escalate the war. This world deserves to burn in hellfire.

    And preferably once Ukraine wins, including Crimea, Russia should burn for a century as a lesson because clearly, violence is ALWAYS the answer for all problems.
    Yeah...the problem is that if you want to keep the moral high ground you need to abide by the rules, if your military tradition already is lousy (russian) then you don't care and can just ignore all the rules, it's shitty but what can you do? Lowering ourselves to their standards isn't an option.

    After the war russia should be very contrite and humble, and friggign teach their history for once. WWII didn't start in 1941 you absolute basterds. (conveniently AFTER the Winter War and the invasion of Poland...)

  11. #29571
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    It is purely so for me, because the so-called rules of war seem to always favor the marauding band of rapist orcs, the attackers, while western bureaucracy is so goddamn slow that the ukrainian civilians pay with their blood for our failure to help when we clearly have the overwhelming strenght to do so.

    Russia can do whatever the fuck they want while limp-dicked bureaucrats twiddle their thumbs with long decades of useful idiots that have infiltrated all forms of goverment. And we can't do shit, because we are oh so democratic and free that we do not see the forest from the trees, as finns would say.

    Russians can speed up the slaughter of civilians, but if we speed up our military intervention, be it in form of aid or direct troops, we escalate the war. This world deserves to burn in hellfire.

    And preferably once Ukraine wins, including Crimea, Russia should burn for a centure as a lesson because clearly, violence is ALWAYS the answer for all problems.
    yea should be the other way round, everything russia does is escalation and provoking us to fuck them up.

    Good to see the germans step up think they have overtaken the UK in what they are giving now.

    We should have no fly zoned at the start. Its the right of all democracies to crush dictators and kings imo, be it through violence or not.

    Ukraine needs shells badly, probably the most important thing they can get right now. Allied countries should be pumping them out yesterday. Would also like to see the UK give more, nuclear countries really dont need to worry about giving away current stocks because well...we have nukes. First strike baby!

  12. #29572
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    ok, sure, I can believe it, but who would have done it then? Because RUSSIA denies it was Ukraine. If russia was going all in on this I'd understand Germany's stance. But now the question is who is smearing Ukraine? Because it isn't russia...
    Poland for example... not saying I believe it was them (I believe it was the US tbh) but they have political and economic reasons to do it and the ships "supposedly" started from a polish harbor as well.

    But if you want to listen to my consipiracy-theory, it was the US and they ordered Scholz to tell this specific story.

  13. #29573
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    We should have no fly zoned at the start. Its the right of all democracies to crush dictators and kings imo, be it through violence or not.
    The problem with this is that to enforce it you would need NATO aircraft with NATO pilots patrolling Ukrainian skies with orders to actively engage Russian targets. There really isn't even remotely close to the will in the US to commit to that, the Republicans would throw an absolute shit fit if the USAF shot down one of their boss' planes.

  14. #29574
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    joe rogan on page 1488 nice.
    Sometimes he has really good guests on. The episode with Bernie is definitely worth a watch.

  15. #29575
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    yea should be the other way round, everything russia does is escalation and provoking us to fuck them up.

    Good to see the germans step up think they have overtaken the UK in what they are giving now.

    We should have no fly zoned at the start. Its the right of all democracies to crush dictators and kings imo, be it through violence or not.

    Ukraine needs shells badly, probably the most important thing they can get right now. Allied countries should be pumping them out yesterday. Would also like to see the UK give more, nuclear countries really dont need to worry about giving away current stocks because well...we have nukes. First strike baby!
    A NATO no fly zones would require NATO to have complete air control over Ukraine which in turn would mean NATO would need to attack Russian AA sites on Russian soil who are in striking range of Ukraine.

    A no fly zone would basically require we first fight WW3
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #29576
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    A NATO no fly zones would require NATO to have complete air control over Ukraine which in turn would mean NATO would need to attack Russian AA sites on Russian soil who are in striking range of Ukraine.

    A no fly zone would basically require we first fight WW3
    It wouldn't be much of a world war.

  17. #29577
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    It wouldn't be much of a world war.
    Still would end up with everyone dead who wouldn't have a nuclear shelter. I know that doesn't bother you but for a good roughly 8 billion of us, yes that's a major issue.

  18. #29578
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    It wouldn't be much of a world war.
    As much as we want to think that, I'd rather not test the hypothesis, even if I have shelter where I can go which can withstand some shit.


    How sad, prig's been cut off.

    Yeah, it's the Mirror, sue me.
    Last edited by Iphie; 2023-03-09 at 08:33 PM.

  19. #29579
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Still would end up with everyone dead who wouldn't have a nuclear shelter. I know that doesn't bother you but for a good roughly 8 billion of us, yes that's a major issue.
    Let's not do the nuke discussion again.

  20. #29580
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    A NATO no fly zones would require NATO to have complete air control over Ukraine which in turn would mean NATO would need to attack Russian AA sites on Russian soil who are in striking range of Ukraine.

    A no fly zone would basically require we first fight WW3
    You're severely overestimating Russia's current capacity if you think Russia is in a position to fight anything resembling a world war against NATO.

    They're not the soviet union at it's peak despite how much they aspire to become more than the regional has-been that is the Russian Federation.

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