Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Deus Mortis]

Back to the Night Witches.

Great song by Sabaton, but for how shit is going in this war how long before they do break out their biplanes again.

For those who do not know what the Night Witches were.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches

[Corvus]

As if things with the Wankers weren't weird enough, they started advertising for recruits on pornhub. The ad has since been banned, but I guess it makes sense - if you join the Wankers you'll get fucked. Probably first by the prisoner recruit next to you and then by getting blown up.

And apparently Italian news sources are saying the Wankers have put a bounty of the head of the Italian Minister of Defence.

[Pann]

The Mail has footage of the SU27 hitting the drone.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ter_mailonline

[Corvus]

Completely misjudged their approach and accidentally clipped it. But they were blatantly attacking it prior to that.

[postman1782]

Completely misjudged their approach and accidentally clipped it. But they were blatantly attacking it prior to that.

Yep, and they don't have the aircraft to just throw around like that. They are already having a terrible time keeping air superiority over Ukraine.

[Iphie]

Yep, and they don't have the aircraft to just throw around like that. They are already having a terrible time keeping air superiority over Ukraine.

They never had air superiority, it's one of the mysteries of this war.

[Belize]

Let's check on how things are going in Russia: Putin calls for the continued natural and necessary self-purification of Russia.

Oh. He seems to be taking the situation, uh, well.

[Flarelaine]

A visit to the front.

[Makabreska]

Poland donates 4 MiGs to Ukraine.

And apparently it is only the first set.

[caervek]

Poland donates 4 MiGs to Ukraine.

And apparently it is only the first set.

The influx/transfer of MiG-29s to Ukraine is good as it shows that countries are still committed to helping, but it's mostly for show and there are a couple of major problems with it:

(1) - While Ukraine have lost nearly 40% of their MiG-29 fighters (F-16 equivalent for those not up on Soviet aircraft) and nearly 30% of their Su-27 fighters (F-15 equivalent) they still have over 40 and over 25 left, it is a problem but due to their current inability to utilise what they have effectively combined with Russia's inability to challenge their airspace due to the SAMs it's not as big an issue as it would otherwise be. What they are having trouble with however is the combat ready numbers of their Su-24 (Tornado equivalent) and Su-25 (A-10 equivalent) ground attack aircraft. They have lost ~60% of each and in the case of the Su-24s they are down to just a dozen left. Running out of these aircraft will severely impact their ability to disrupt Russian ground targets and IMO these are what Soviet block allies should be focusing on sending not MiGs they can't fully utilise.


(2) - And this is the BIG one, the reason they can't fully utilise their existing fighters is because, to coin a phrase "planes don't kill planes, missiles do". While it's been greatly mentioned in the media that Russia are just using the same equipment as Ukraine or upgraded versions of the same equipment/etc there is one key difference. Ukraine's MiG-29s and Su-27s fighters carry the R-27 missile, it was developed in the USSR and is still being manufactured in Ukraine (so readily available). The problem is that Russia's MiG-29, Su-27, Su-30, Su-34, Su-35 and Su-57 fighters carry the R-77 missile, it began development in the USSR but wasn't finished until the 90's so only Russia makes them and as the tone of this may suggest it is a far more capable missile, both more accurate and with greater range. Essentially it means Russian fighters can take out Ukrainian fighters from beyond the range at which they can fire back, as I'm sure anyone still reading can guess that's quite a disadvantage for Ukrainian Air Force.

But sadly it gets worse, Russia's MiG-31s carry the R-33 and R-37 missiles with ranges up to 400km, designed to take out strategic bombers these missiles can be evaded by fighters but they are still deadly to transports, attack helicopters and ground attack aircraft. In fact the current missile situation is so lopsided that if they wanted to Russia could start dragging MiG-21s out of storage, give them a quick upgrade to MiG-21bis standards, strap on some R-77s (yes then made them work with the modernised 21s) and hey presto your sixty but you have the radar and missiles to outrange anything in Ukrainian airspace.


Ukraine aren't asking for F-16s because they need western fighters, or even because they have a shortage of fighters. They're asking for F-16s because they desperately need AMRAAMs, and that's the shortest route to getting AMRAAMs.

[PACOX]

Completely misjudged their approach and accidentally clipped it. But they were blatantly attacking it prior to that.

The problem I have with discussing the incident is that it makes my stance appear charitable to Russia instead of discussing how similar incidents are carried out.


But just weeks ago the US made an international even about a "spy balloon" it knew about well in advance. It condemned China for 'violating sovereign territory', and for 'spying on the US', then shot down said balloon.

The US flies a surveillance plane half way across the world close to Russia territory, (I don't recognize the claim but in the spirit of political science) disputed Russian territory, and Russian hardware. Based on what the US just did and told the world, Russia had the right to intercept, shoot down, and salvage the drone.


The incident is only notable because the US got caught dicking around an active warzone, so it's slightly embarrassing. Like getting caught watching your neighbors argue. But drones get intercepted, shot down, and sometimes captured all the time. It's an understood consequence of 'the game' and the only people who really make a big deal about it are newscasters who need to fill time slots or politicians farming clout for reelection.


The US was dicking around. Russia was dicking around, no one got hurt except some bruised egos.


Zero impact on the war or international politics.

[YUPPIE]

I'm late to this by date (March 14th), but nevertheless didn't see it posted.

Steven Seagall is Russia's ambassador now or something similar.

At least the article insinuates that he's "leading a pro Russia international movement"

[Corvus]

The problem I have with discussing the incident is that it makes my stance appear charitable to Russia instead of discussing how similar incidents are carried out.


But just weeks ago the US made an international even about a "spy balloon" it knew about well in advance. It condemned China for 'violating sovereign territory', and for 'spying on the US', then shot down said balloon.

The US flies a surveillance plane half way across the world close to Russia territory, (I don't recognize the claim but in the spirit of political science) disputed Russian territory, and Russian hardware. Based on what the US just did and told the world, Russia had the right to intercept, shoot down, and salvage the drone.


The incident is only notable because the US got caught dicking around an active warzone, so it's slightly embarrassing. Like getting caught watching your neighbors argue. But drones get intercepted, shot down, and sometimes captured all the time. It's an understood consequence of 'the game' and the only people who really make a big deal about it are newscasters who need to fill time slots or politicians farming clout for reelection.


The US was dicking around. Russia was dicking around, no one got hurt except some bruised egos.


Zero impact on the war or international politics.

The two aren't close to comparable. The weather balloon not just entered US airspace but flew over its landmass. Meanwhile the drone was in international airspace over international waters. it did not once even enter russia's unrecognised claimed airspace. It doesn't matter what it was doing there - international law is very clear you can't shot down things in international airspace. Otherwise russia's (and china's) airforce, and their spyships, would have ceased to exist by now.

[PACOX]

The two aren't close to comparable. The weather balloon not just entered US airspace but flew over its landmass. Meanwhile the drone was in international airspace over international waters. it did not once even enter russia's unrecognised claimed airspace. It doesn't matter what it was doing there - international law is very clear you can't shot down things in international airspace. Otherwise russia's (and china's) airforce, and their spyships, would have ceased to exist by now.

Yeah I think you missed the point. Nations spy on each other and others use that as an excuse to shoot stuff down all the time. It's SOP. Only reason why the story flirted with newscycles is because of the war. Even the Pentagon tried to quickly bury the story, in part because it knows how the media would spin It, in part because of the smoke it blew with balloongate knowing it was over playing the situation.

[KrayZ33]

Yeah I think you missed the point. Nations spy on each other and others use that as an excuse to shoot stuff down all the time. It's SOP. Only reason why the story flirted with newscycles is because of the war. Even the Pentagon tried to quickly bury the story, in part because it knows how the media would spin It, in part because of the smoke it blew with balloongate knowing it was over playing the situation.

It's not a similar incident however, which is what you suggested.
It's like saying a dude walking into your house taking pictures is the same thing as someone walking in public space taking pictures.

The incident is notable because US equipment was attacked by a nation they are not at war within international airspace.
Not because "they got caught".

It's no different from sinking a ship in international waters. Manned or not manned doesn't matter. It's an attack.
The only difference is that this drone is "not worth" getting upset about and escalating things. It's a hostile move either way though.

[Iphie]

It's not a similar incident however, which is what you suggested.
It's like saying a dude walking into your house taking pictures is the same thing as someone walking in public space taking pictures.

The incident is notable because US equipment was attacked by a nation they are not at war within international airspace.
Not because "they got caught".

It's no different from sinking a ship in international waters. Manned or not manned doesn't matter. It's an attack.
The only difference is that this drone is "not worth" getting upset about and escalating things. It's a hostile move either way though.

Not necessarily, accidents do happen after all. Of course that's not the case here. My point is merely that saying it's an attacks either way is not doing justice to every reality.

[enigma77]

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-...600e105bfebf96

Slovakia to send 13 MiG-29 fighter jets to Ukraine

[Saradain]

Right now, Erdogan just said Turkey is going to start the ratification process of Finland joining NATO. Sweden still has some talks ahead regarding "terrorism".

[Iphie]

Right now, Erdogan just said Turkey is going to start the ratification process of Finland joining NATO. Sweden still has some talks ahead regarding "terrorism".

And Hungary apparently confirmed that they'll vote on Finnish membership the 31st of March. I'm not sure if they'll also vote on Sweden's membership, the HS article is a bit vague or maybe my Finnish skills are inadequate. In any case I'll believe it when I see it, even if Hungary has promised they won't be the last to ratify.

Helsingin Sanomat article (in Finnish).

[Saradain]

And Hungary apparently confirmed that they'll vote on Finnish membership the 31st of March. I'm not sure if they'll also vote on Sweden's membership, the HS article is a bit vague or maybe my Finnish skills are inadequate. In any case I'll believe it when I see it, even if Hungary has promised they won't be the last to ratify.

Helsingin Sanomat article (in Finnish).

Article has flawed grammar and missing words (fucking "summer interns" at it again), but to me it clearly is about voting for Finland's case, not Sweden's.