1. #29881
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Science has not come up with wide enough scale to measure the depth of my smugness if China pulls off "little green men" or "concerned locals" in some Russian border oblast.
    I'd blame Ork Snipers personally.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  2. #29882
    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    What payback looks like...


    Challengers, leopards, strykers, marders and bradleys are arriving in Ukraine, and training on them is complete. Ukraine's counter-offensive is likely to start soonish.

  3. #29883
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Yeah, those ones. China has a very clear view nukes should not be housed outside the country that owns them. For russia to do it right after the meeting and when China was organising a get together of central Asian states without russia, it's little wonder Xi isn't happy.
    Yeah, they really do not like this idea, because if it can be justified and accepted that russsia houses nukes in Belarus, there is no reason the US couldn't do the same in Taiwan.

  4. #29884
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcanaXVIII View Post
    Yeah, they really do not like this idea, because if it can be justified and accepted that russsia houses nukes in Belarus, there is no reason the US couldn't do the same in Taiwan.
    Or South Korea, Japan, Viet Nam, Philippines and so on...

    China is a lot more responsible with their weapons than russia, though.
    Last edited by Iphie; 2023-03-28 at 02:54 PM.

  5. #29885
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Welp, International Olympic Committee allows Russians and Belarusians to participate in individual disciplines under neutral flag.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  6. #29886
    Quote Originally Posted by ArcanaXVIII View Post
    Yeah, they really do not like this idea, because if it can be justified and accepted that russsia houses nukes in Belarus, there is no reason the US couldn't do the same in Taiwan.
    Uhm.

    For the US to house nukes in Taiwan a substantial policy change would need to occur first.

    Technically, right now, at this moment, the US does recognize Taiwan as being part of "China".

    Technically.

    So putting nukes in Taiwan would be like Russia putting nukes in Crimea or South Ossetia. As in putting nukes in the territory of sovereign nations that do not want said nukes or permitted those nukes on their territory.

    Russian nukes in Belarus are more akin to the US nukes in Germany and Turkey, there with the explicit permission of the host nations which have sovereign control over their own territory. And even share access to those weapons in the case of Germany.

    For the US to put nukes in Taiwan, it would first have to recognize Taiwan either as an independent sovereign nation (which it does not) or would have to shift recognition from Beijing to Taipei as the sovereign government of "China".

    Neither of those things is likely to happen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Or South Korea, Japan, Viet Nam, Philippines and so on...

    China is a lot more responsible with their weapons than russia, though.
    The US already houses nuclear weapons in Japan.

    Although it withdrew them from Korea for example.

    I doubt any of the other nations you listed, apart from possibly South Korea would consider housing US nuclear weapons.

  7. #29887
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    Uhm.

    For the US to house nukes in Taiwan a substantial policy change would need to occur first.

    Technically, right now, at this moment, the US does recognize Taiwan as being part of "China".

    Technically.

    So putting nukes in Taiwan would be like Russia putting nukes in Crimea or South Ossetia. As in putting nukes in the territory of sovereign nations that do not want said nukes or permitted those nukes on their territory.

    Russian nukes in Belarus are more akin to the US nukes in Germany and Turkey, there with the explicit permission of the host nations which have sovereign control over their own territory. And even share access to those weapons in the case of Germany.

    For the US to put nukes in Taiwan, it would first have to recognize Taiwan either as an independent sovereign nation (which it does not) or would have to shift recognition from Beijing to Taipei as the sovereign government of "China".

    Neither of those things is likely to happen.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The US already houses nuclear weapons in Japan.

    Although it withdrew them from Korea for example.

    I doubt any of the other nations you listed, apart from possibly South Korea would consider housing US nuclear weapons.
    Is that a fact now? You learn something new every day. As for the others it's not so much a question of would they consider it but rather a question of possibilities, and that is definitely something. The mentioned states are friendly and somewhat allied with the US.

  8. #29888
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    The mentioned states are friendly and somewhat allied with the US.
    "Friendly and allied" and "hosting nukes" are two vastly different conditions.

    Hosting nukes makes you a legitimate target for "preventive" first strike and retaliatory nuclear attacks. Most nations would have a hard time convincing their own populations that that would be a good idea. The nuclear weapons hosted in Germany, Japan and Turkey are relics of the Cold War in the sense that those were the "front lines" and "points of contact" between the West and the Communist block at that time, so having nukes there reduced the possibility of becoming the front lines of a shooting war.

  9. #29889
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    "Friendly and allied" and "hosting nukes" are two vastly different conditions.

    Hosting nukes makes you a legitimate target for "preventive" first strike and retaliatory nuclear attacks. Most nations would have a hard time convincing their own populations that that would be a good idea. The nuclear weapons hosted in Germany, Japan and Turkey are relics of the Cold War in the sense that those were the "front lines" and "points of contact" between the West and the Communist block at that time, so having nukes there reduced the possibility of becoming the front lines of a shooting war.
    Again, it's about the potential, not whether its happening right now. I am well aware of the difference. Also, I'm now wondering how secret the nukes in the Netherlands were.

  10. #29890
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    "Friendly and allied" and "hosting nukes" are two vastly different conditions.

    Hosting nukes makes you a legitimate target for "preventive" first strike and retaliatory nuclear attacks. Most nations would have a hard time convincing their own populations that that would be a good idea. The nuclear weapons hosted in Germany, Japan and Turkey are relics of the Cold War in the sense that those were the "front lines" and "points of contact" between the West and the Communist block at that time, so having nukes there reduced the possibility of becoming the front lines of a shooting war.
    About as secret as the fact that Israel has nukes.

    Nobody formally admits to anything, but if you read between the lines of publicly available information on budget allocations, equipment purchases, what facilities are built and maintained, what versions of certain jets, planes etc a country has or buys or builds an expert on the matter can tell you down to the most minute detail what nukes a country has or houses.

    It's the kind of "secret" that's public knowledge with plausible deniability (in order to not have to sign up for international non proliferation treaties etc) where you actually kinda sorta want people (especially possible enemies) to know you have nukes as a deterrent.

  11. #29891
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Again, it's about the potential, not whether its happening right now. I am well aware of the difference. Also, I'm now wondering how secret the nukes in the Netherlands were.
    The US nukes housed in the Netherlands is one of the most public 'secrets' that exists
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  12. #29892
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The US nukes housed in the Netherlands is one of the most public 'secrets' that exists
    That's what I thought, so I was a bit surprised they weren't mentioned in the same breath with Germany, Japan and Turkey.

  13. #29893
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    That's what I thought, so I was a bit surprised they weren't mentioned in the same breath with Germany, Japan and Turkey.
    There are a number of other NATO countries that also share nukes with the US, namely Belgium and Italy.

    The distinction for Germany and Turkey is that the nukes are actually part of those countries national defense strategies, meanwhile the nukes in Italy, Belgium, Netherlands are more part of NATO's broader defense strategy.

    The nukes in Japan are a bit more complicated as they are part of the US guarantee for Japanese security that is essentially written into the Japanese constitution which broadly prohibits Japan from developing serious offensive or expeditionary capabilities (tho this is becoming less and less the case).

    Germany, Japan, Turkey are also discussed more often because people don't really understand how strategic nuclear weapons and maps in general work. The average Russian looks at a map and thinks it's easier to deliver a nuke from Rammstein or Turkey to Moscow than from a nuclear silo in Iowa. Same for Japan, just replace Russia with China and Iowa with Montana.

  14. #29894
    Interesting, soon the Dutch Army has to awnser to the german army.. It keeps merging there units more and more with germany's army...

    Does that mean that the Netherlands will be a part of Germany soon? :kappa:

  15. #29895
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Interesting, soon the Dutch Army has to awnser to the german army.. It keeps merging there units more and more with germany's army...

    Does that mean that the Netherlands will be a part of Germany soon? :kappa:
    Holy roman empire is returning!

  16. #29896
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Interesting, soon the Dutch Army has to awnser to the german army.. It keeps merging there units more and more with germany's army...

    Does that mean that the Netherlands will be a part of Germany soon? :kappa:
    No, it means Germany will soon be the thirteenth province of the Greater Netherlands.

    And I just realised how tacky that sounds in this thread. Oops.

  17. #29897
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    No, it means Germany will soon be the thirteenth province of the Greater Netherlands.

    And I just realised how tacky that sounds in this thread. Oops.
    we invaded no one then tho :kappa:

  18. #29898
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    we invaded no one then tho :kappa:
    True, also for funsies, we Dutch did have plans for annexations of German territory after WWII:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_...cond_World_War

    Nothing came of it of course. I believe we in the end annexed 70 square meters. or something silly like that.

  19. #29899
    Well that didn't take long for muscovy to start becoming a Chinese vassal - students at the Moscow institute of physics and technology now have to learn Chinese in order to graduate, while European languages are to
    be scrapped.

    https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/03/29...for-graduation

    - - - Updated - - -

    Russia is now saying Finland and Sweden are a legitimate target for retaliatory measures, including military ones, if they join NATO.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-...e=abc_news_web

    This after long saying it didn't matter.

  20. #29900
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Well that didn't take long for muscovy to start becoming a Chinese vassal - students at the Moscow institute of physics and technology now have to learn Chinese in order to graduate, while European languages are to
    be scrapped.

    https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/03/29...for-graduation

    - - - Updated - - -

    Russia is now saying Finland and Sweden are a legitimate target for retaliatory measures, including military ones, if they join NATO.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-...e=abc_news_web

    This after long saying it didn't matter.
    I imagine everyone's reaction is a yawn followed by "fuck around and find out".
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

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