Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Elder Millennial]

"Friendly and allied" and "hosting nukes" are two vastly different conditions.

Hosting nukes makes you a legitimate target for "preventive" first strike and retaliatory nuclear attacks. Most nations would have a hard time convincing their own populations that that would be a good idea. The nuclear weapons hosted in Germany, Japan and Turkey are relics of the Cold War in the sense that those were the "front lines" and "points of contact" between the West and the Communist block at that time, so having nukes there reduced the possibility of becoming the front lines of a shooting war.

About as secret as the fact that Israel has nukes.

Nobody formally admits to anything, but if you read between the lines of publicly available information on budget allocations, equipment purchases, what facilities are built and maintained, what versions of certain jets, planes etc a country has or buys or builds an expert on the matter can tell you down to the most minute detail what nukes a country has or houses.

It's the kind of "secret" that's public knowledge with plausible deniability (in order to not have to sign up for international non proliferation treaties etc) where you actually kinda sorta want people (especially possible enemies) to know you have nukes as a deterrent.

[Gorsameth]

Again, it's about the potential, not whether its happening right now. I am well aware of the difference. Also, I'm now wondering how secret the nukes in the Netherlands were.

The US nukes housed in the Netherlands is one of the most public 'secrets' that exists

[Iphie]

The US nukes housed in the Netherlands is one of the most public 'secrets' that exists

That's what I thought, so I was a bit surprised they weren't mentioned in the same breath with Germany, Japan and Turkey.

[Elder Millennial]

That's what I thought, so I was a bit surprised they weren't mentioned in the same breath with Germany, Japan and Turkey.

There are a number of other NATO countries that also share nukes with the US, namely Belgium and Italy.

The distinction for Germany and Turkey is that the nukes are actually part of those countries national defense strategies, meanwhile the nukes in Italy, Belgium, Netherlands are more part of NATO's broader defense strategy.

The nukes in Japan are a bit more complicated as they are part of the US guarantee for Japanese security that is essentially written into the Japanese constitution which broadly prohibits Japan from developing serious offensive or expeditionary capabilities (tho this is becoming less and less the case).

Germany, Japan, Turkey are also discussed more often because people don't really understand how strategic nuclear weapons and maps in general work. The average Russian looks at a map and thinks it's easier to deliver a nuke from Rammstein or Turkey to Moscow than from a nuclear silo in Iowa. Same for Japan, just replace Russia with China and Iowa with Montana.

[Fuiking]

Interesting, soon the Dutch Army has to awnser to the german army.. It keeps merging there units more and more with germany's army...

Does that mean that the Netherlands will be a part of Germany soon? :kappa:

[Kallisto]

Interesting, soon the Dutch Army has to awnser to the german army.. It keeps merging there units more and more with germany's army...

Does that mean that the Netherlands will be a part of Germany soon? :kappa:

Holy roman empire is returning!

[Iphie]

Interesting, soon the Dutch Army has to awnser to the german army.. It keeps merging there units more and more with germany's army...

Does that mean that the Netherlands will be a part of Germany soon? :kappa:

No, it means Germany will soon be the thirteenth province of the Greater Netherlands.

And I just realised how tacky that sounds in this thread. Oops.

[Fuiking]

No, it means Germany will soon be the thirteenth province of the Greater Netherlands.

And I just realised how tacky that sounds in this thread. Oops.

we invaded no one then tho :kappa:

[Iphie]

we invaded no one then tho :kappa:

True, also for funsies, we Dutch did have plans for annexations of German territory after WWII:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_...cond_World_War

Nothing came of it of course. I believe we in the end annexed 70 square meters. or something silly like that.

[Corvus]

Well that didn't take long for muscovy to start becoming a Chinese vassal - students at the Moscow institute of physics and technology now have to learn Chinese in order to graduate, while European languages are to
be scrapped.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/03/29...for-graduation

- - - Updated - - -

Russia is now saying Finland and Sweden are a legitimate target for retaliatory measures, including military ones, if they join NATO.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-...e=abc_news_web

This after long saying it didn't matter.

[Gorsameth]

Well that didn't take long for muscovy to start becoming a Chinese vassal - students at the Moscow institute of physics and technology now have to learn Chinese in order to graduate, while European languages are to
be scrapped.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/03/29...for-graduation

- - - Updated - - -

Russia is now saying Finland and Sweden are a legitimate target for retaliatory measures, including military ones, if they join NATO.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-...e=abc_news_web

This after long saying it didn't matter.

I imagine everyone's reaction is a yawn followed by "fuck around and find out".

[zealo]

What are they gonna do, roleplay yet more invasions of Gotland on state TV?

[Iphie]

Well that didn't take long for muscovy to start becoming a Chinese vassal - students at the Moscow institute of physics and technology now have to learn Chinese in order to graduate, while European languages are to
be scrapped.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/03/29...for-graduation

I mean, I need to learn Swedish to graduate university here in Finland, because I count as a Finnish speaker, so I'm *slightly* sympathetic. XD (also English but eh, I can speak that reasonably well...)

Russia is now saying Finland and Sweden are a legitimate target for retaliatory measures, including military ones, if they join NATO.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-...e=abc_news_web


This after long saying it didn't matter.

russia lies, what else is new? Not as if they can do much in the case of Finland, Niinistö signals that he thinks Turkey will ratify on Thursday.

While nobody says anything without kremlin approval (probably) I do want to point out that this is a statement from the russian ambassador, NOT by a spokesperson of the Kremlin or by putin. (according to the article)

[Gorsameth]

I mean, I need to learn Swedish to graduate university here in Finland, because I count as a Finnish speaker, so I'm *slightly* sympathetic. XD (also English but eh, I can speak that reasonably well...)



russia lies, what else is new? Not as if they can do much in the case of Finland, Niinistö signals that he thinks Turkey will ratify on Thursday.

While nobody says anything without kremlin approval (probably) I do want to point out that this is a statement from the russian ambassador, NOT by a spokesperson of the Kremlin or by putin. (according to the article)

An ambassador is a direct spokesperson for their government. So while its not a direct communication from the Kremlin its basically the next best thing.

[Gabriel]

I imagine everyone's reaction is a yawn followed by "fuck around and find out".

I know several people who's reaction is cautiously optimistic and hopeful erection.

[Iphie]

An ambassador is a direct spokesperson for their government. So while its not a direct communication from the Kremlin its basically the next best thing.

Tell that to the Polish ambassador to France. Yes an ambassador is supposed to be that but that doesn't mean they don't sometimes say stupid things not in line with the official party line.

[Elder Millennial]

So, imagine you're a Russian who isn't completely and totally brain dead. You actually might even like Putin, and even think that this "special military operation" was a good idea at the start.

But here you are.

13 months in. You're mostly cut off from the West, your economy is sketch as fuck, energy sales are not dead but are being sold under cost of production, NATO has expanded, it is clear that nobody in Europe gives a single flying fuck about the constant nuclear and military saber rattling coming out of the Kremlin and nobody gives a fuck about appeasing you anymore, hundreds of thousands of your most skilled and educated laborers have left the country.

In exchange, you got...some empty land in eastern Ukraine that has been pretty much glassed from orbit by this point, a massive economic sink, tens of thousands of your countrymen dead, hundreds of thousands injured or mobilized.

Like wtf.

[Makabreska]

So, imagine you're a Russian who isn't completely and totally brain dead. You actually might even like Putin, and even think that this "special military operation" was a good idea at the start.

But here you are.

13 months in. You're mostly cut off from the West, your economy is sketch as fuck, energy sales are not dead but are being sold under cost of production, NATO has expanded, it is clear that nobody in Europe gives a single flying fuck about the constant nuclear and military saber rattling coming out of the Kremlin and nobody gives a fuck about appeasing you anymore, hundreds of thousands of your most skilled and educated laborers have left the country.

In exchange, you got...some empty land in eastern Ukraine that has been pretty much glassed from orbit by this point, a massive economic sink, tens of thousands of your countrymen dead, hundreds of thousands injured or mobilized.

Like wtf.

Ye well, reality check is a bitch and Russia not so stronk after all. I feel zero sympathy for them.

[Poopymonster]

Interesting, soon the Dutch Army has to awnser to the german army.. It keeps merging there units more and more with germany's army...

Does that mean that the Netherlands will be a part of Germany soon? :kappa:

The German professor at the college I attended referenced something similar "You'd think by now French would be a dialect of German."

[Belize]

In a surprising turn of events, the international sanctions may be bad for the Russian economy.

Wild.