Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Iphie]

1) Russia killing ukrainians

2) Russia purposefully focusing civilian targets

3) Russia purposefully destroying infrastructure to kill more civilians

4) Russia kidnapping children for indoctrination even if the parents are still alive, ergo, it certainly wouldn't be a graceful act no matter what.

Ding-ding-ding, 4 counts of genocide right there, keep living in fantasy land

As happens in a war...I think that needs a bit more refinement as it's a bit crude to have that as a criterion when you are fighting a war where you inherently kill someone from another group.

In other news: Finland is now a full member of NATO.everything is done and dusted article 5 is in full force. Suck it russia.

[Saradain]

As happens in a war...I think that needs a bit more refinement as it's a bit crude to have that as a criterion when you are fighting a war where you inherently kill someoen from another group.

In other news: Finland is now a full member of NATO.everything is done and dusted article 5 is in full force. Suck it russia.

One can lump my point up with the fact that russian propaganda machine simply spreads the anti-ukrainian rhetoric via making ukrainians appear as people who should not exist, who deserve to die. A state-wide propaganda to dehumanize innocent people. Ergo, Russia is specifically wiping out ukrainians with state-wide interest in fully exterminating the group - which was discussed in this thread while ago with their plans of going door-to-door to determine whether someone is allowed to live or assassinated.

Add cultural extermination too, to the mix, as if Ukraine never was sovereign nation.

[Iphie]

One can lump my point up with the fact that russian propaganda machine simply spreads the anti-ukrainian rhetoric via making ukrainians appear as people who should not exist, who deserve to die. A state-wide propaganda to dehumanize innocent people. Ergo, Russia is specifically wiping out ukrainians with state-wide interest in fully exterminating the group - which was discussed in this thread while ago with their plans of going door-to-door to determine whether someone is allowed to live or assassinated.

True, you do agree though that it's a bit weird as a criterion...(btw you can also say that russia is genociding it's own minorities by how callously it treat them in this war.)

[Saradain]

True, you do agree though that it's a bit weird as a criterion...(btw you can also say that russia is genociding it's own minorities by how callously it treat them in this war.)

I suppose the sooner the offensive wars of all kinds are counted as a genocide, the better for the world?

The definition did state:

genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

A war often is about gaining territory or concessions of other kind. Russia has no intention for concessions, they seek the full extermination of Ukrainian culture, identity, sovereignty and any people they would "allow" to live, would be forced to a life of hell, indoctrinated to support russian regime or DYING.

[Lahis]

Gotta admit, the idea of Russian troops Last Samurai'ng themselves on horseback into modern weaponry is entertaining

Poor horses though.

[Gabriel]

Ahh, what a beautiful day.

I want to thank all the Russiaboos for making this possible. We truly wouldn't be here without you. Special mention goes out to my man @Shalcker (I know you are lurking you old rascal).

[Strawberry]

Already established it is a genocide by legal terms, if you didn't listen back then months ago, that's on you.

When 8200 civilians die or far more as your numbers are likely twisted by propaganda, it's not an accident. The past year you certainly haven't showed a single shred of humanity in you and you simply keep denying facts, as always, as they mean you are WRONG.

Facts also state Russia is simply kidnapping children from their parents and indoctrinating them to become russians, which also counts as a genocide by the way

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml



You're welcome, bub.

- - - Updated - - -

1) Russia killing ukrainians

2) Russia purposefully focusing civilian targets

3) Russia purposefully destroying infrastructure to kill more civilians

4) Russia kidnapping children for indoctrination even if the parents are still alive, ergo, it certainly wouldn't be a graceful act no matter what.

Ding-ding-ding, 4 counts of genocide right there, keep living in fantasy land

What do you expect in war? Paintball weapons?

2, 3, 4 - speculation.
Actually, I'm going to report that post as a conspiracy.
You do realize that eastern parts of Ukraine are actually Russia-friendly?

- - - Updated - - -

[/video]

Ahh, what a beautiful day.

I want to thank all the Russiaboos for making this possible. We truly wouldn't be here without you. Special mention goes out to my man @Shalcker (I know you are lurking you old rascal).

That's great actually. Anything that disturbs the world order is a plus in my book.

[Saradain]

What do you expect in war? Paintball weapons?

2, 3, 4 - speculation.
Actually, I'm going to report that post as a conspiracy.
You do realize that eastern parts of Ukraine are actually Russia-friendly?

Facts, not speculation but ok then You simply choose to ignore other posts that clarified everything, so once more that is on you. It is literally investigated and confirmed to be facts.

Go ahead, report me falsely. We both know who'll be moderated in the end.

[Gabriel]

That's great actually. Anything that disturbs the world order is a plus in my book.

I'd expect nothing less from someone cheering on Russians to genocide Ukraine.

[The Stormbringer]

What do you expect in war? Paintball weapons?

2, 3, 4 - speculation.
Actually, I'm going to report that post as a conspiracy.
You do realize that eastern parts of Ukraine are actually Russia-friendly?

- - - Updated - - -

That's great actually. Anything that disturbs the world order is a plus in my book.

They're not speculation. We have excessive amounts of evidence for all three of those. Putin has literally been hit with war crime charges for the last one, even.

[Iphie]

Ahh, what a beautiful day.

I want to thank all the Russiaboos for making this possible. We truly wouldn't be here without you. Special mention goes out to my man @Shalcker (I know you are lurking you old rascal).

Brings a tear to the eye, I too would like to thank putin for making the case for why Finland SHOULD join NATO. Without him it would have never happened.

[Makabreska]

Brings a tear to the eye, I too would like to thank putin for making the case for why Finland SHOULD join NATO. Without him it would have never happened.

Nothing speaks like an utter failure than starting a war under "push back the NATO" banner and ending up doubling your NATO border.

Honestly, dude must be absolutely fuming. He started this shit to be remembered as some Unite-the-Slavs Tzar, and this is what he got. Hague is yet another punch to the face of his "legacy".

[Rommon64]

Incidentally, Finland has already submitted their ratification(vote?) of Sweden's NATO application.

[Edge-]

Incidentally, Finland has already submitted their ratification(vote?) of Sweden's NATO application.

Once the Swedes get in Russia will have successfully made NATO the most metal military alliance in the world.

I hope they're strongly considering changing theme songs for NATO. Or adopting a theme song for NATO if they don't have one. They've got a ton of talented metal bands to choose from!

[Rommon64]

Once the Swedes get in Russia will have successfully made NATO the most metal military alliance in the world.

I hope they're strongly considering changing theme songs for NATO. Or adopting a theme song for NATO if they don't have one. They've got a ton of talented metal bands to choose from!

It would be right up Sabaton's alley.

[Corvus]

I think Sabaton said they don't do post-world war 2 events. At least anymore. They have done so in the past.

[jonnysensible]

great now finland will activate article 5 and we will have to fight the dark elves that have been terrorising finnish children for hundreds of years

[Logwyn]

I think Sabaton said they don't do post-world war 2 events. At least anymore. They have done so in the past.

Things like this would be interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQFPk8n97wk

[Iphie]

great now finland will activate article 5 and we will have to fight the dark elves that have been terrorising finnish children for hundreds of years

Nah, we can handle those...the Moomins on the other hand, when they attack article 5 will come in handy.

[Elder Millennial]

I suppose the sooner the offensive wars of all kinds are counted as a genocide, the better for the world?

A war often is about gaining territory or concessions of other kind. Russia has no intention for concessions, they seek the full extermination of Ukrainian culture, identity, sovereignty and any people they would "allow" to live, would be forced to a life of hell, indoctrinated to support russian regime or DYING.

The old Clausewitzian adage continues to apply. "War is politics by other means."

I'm unwilling the label all offensive wars as inherently genocidal as the politics behind said war, whether defensive or offensive determine the morality of said war.

I can conceptualize scenarios where an offensive war could be both politically and morally justified.

Imagine if...I don't know...let's Norway started a nuclear program with the explicit and state purpose of using nuclear weapons to annihilate all Swedish cities.

In such a scenario Sweden or other third parties sympathetic to saving millions of Swedish lives and possibly prevent a larger nuclear conflict would be both politically and morally justified to initiate an offensive war to prevent a worse outcome and the Norwegians opposing said offensive would be morally in the wrong in defending Norway.

This is a complicated subject.

Of course, historically speaking such extreme scenarios are rare, and it's way more common for one side or the other to use these scenarios as a false pretense to start an unjust war, Iraq WMDs, Nazi invasion of Poland, Winter War, Caesar in Gaul etc.

But it's still important to preserve a window for the notion of "just war" as a reality.

Also even unjust wars can be "not genocidal".

While the US did invade Iraq under false pretenses, and caused untold losses of human life, it never intended to annihilate the existence of the Iraqi state, national identity, culture or people. In some ways going too far in trying to preserve it (not allowing and supporting and independent Kurdistan).

Lies were told, and horrible mistakes were made, but the US never went "We want to annihilate you, you don't even exist".

There are levels of being wrong, and the Russians have taken this war pretty fucking far on the sliding scale towards "the worst".