Russian invasion of Ukraine

[LeGin v3]

2, 3, 4 - speculation.

Really? Just - no words. Go away

Of course, historically speaking such extreme scenarios are rare

Vietnam-Cambodia war in 1978

Can't think of another

jus ad bellum - edit... forgot no religion

[Lahis]

Incidentally, Finland has already submitted their ratification(vote?) of Sweden's NATO application.

Roughly 15 seconds into our membership.

[jonnysensible]

While the US did invade Iraq under false pretenses, and caused untold losses of human life, it never intended to annihilate the existence of the Iraqi state, national identity, culture or people. In some ways going too far in trying to preserve it (not allowing and supporting and independent Kurdistan).

Lies were told, and horrible mistakes were made, but the US never went "We want to annihilate you, you don't even exist".

.

lol the US invaded to punish muslims for 9/11 and get vengeance. It was pretty genocidal. Bush kept saying he saw Gog and Magog at work in the middle east because hes a mental christian. It was religious war.

They literally dissolved the state. partnered and empowered murderers, rapists, pedophiles, torturers, and mass killers. (preserve it wtf are you talking about lol?), attacked iraqi national id and didnt even bother trying to understand the culture or the people. Not to mention the war crimes by troops.

[s_bushido]

Yeah…I don’t think pointing to Iraq in a positive light is the play.

[Iphie]

China has some interesting messages

Here are a few highlights of the interview:

The ambassador downplayed Russia and China’s declaration of a “no limits” friendship last year.

Just three weeks before Russia invaded Ukraine Presidents Vladimir V. Putin and Xi Jinping signed a joint statement declaring “no limits” to their countries’ friendship. But Mr. Fu said China was not on Russia’s side on the war and that some people “deliberately misinterpret this because there’s the so-called ‘no limit’ friendship or relationship.”

He added, “‘No limit’ is nothing but rhetoric.”

Mr. Fu said that China had not provided military assistance to Russia, nor recognized its efforts to annex Ukrainian territories, including Crimea and the Donbas.

I'm sure it's mainly for the EU but it is still a clear signal.

[Nymrohd]

I'm sure it's mainly for the EU but it is still a clear signal.

It's a meaningless signal. China continues massive anti-western propaganda across the global South. They did not give Putin that "rhetoric" for his sake, they did it to promote their stance as non-interventionists to any nation that has a reason to hate the West (a lot of them) plus any dipshit dictator who'd rather no one pays them a visit. The EU needs to continue to disengage and erect barriers to entry for Chinese investors, barriers that are still limp and pitiful compared to what the Party demands for anyone to do business in their playground.

Ofc China is pissed at Russia. Ask China how they feel about the right of a majority population in a specific region to vote to secede on the grounds of self-determination. Russia's acts are completely against their dogma of unassailable sovereignty which is not something that Xi came up with, it is millenia old and it is part of the Chinese psyche via the trauma of the Opium wars and the cornerstone of their economic style of "mercantilism for me, capitalism for you". But they will milk this situation against the West every way they can.

[Iphie]

It's a meaningless signal. China continues massive anti-western propaganda across the global South. They did not give Putin that "rhetoric" for his sake, they did it to promote their stance as non-interventionists to any nation that has a reason to hate the West (a lot of them) plus any dipshit dictator who'd rather no one pays them a visit. The EU needs to continue to disengage and erect barriers to entry for Chinese investors, barriers that are still limp and pitiful compared to what the Party demands for anyone to do business in their playground.

Ofc China is pissed at Russia. Ask China how they feel about the right of a majority population in a specific region to vote to secede on the grounds of self-determination. Russia's acts are completely against their dogma of unassailable sovereignty which is not something that Xi came up with, it is millenia old and it is part of the Chinese psyche via the trauma of the Opium wars and the cornerstone of their economic style of "mercantilism for me, capitalism for you". But they will milk this situation against the West every way they can.

Take it with a grain of salt if you must, but China cannot win can they? If they say they are against the shit in Ukraine people accuse them of being insincere and if they would support russia then, well...you know.

I for one am glad they do say things like this, as shallow as it may sound, it's the closest we'll come to condemnation from them.

[Gorsameth]

Take it with a grain of salt if you must, but China cannot win can they? If they say they are against the shit in Ukraine people accuse them of being insincere and if they would support russia then, well...you know.

I for one am glad they do say things like this, as shallow as it may sound, it's the closest we'll come to condemnation from them.

I mean, its hard to ignore their statements of support towards Russia. You can't have a declaration of unlimited friendship weeks before your 'friend' invades another country and not get called out on that shit. They could have had to categorically walk away from Russia and they haven't so what do you expect?

(and I do believe they have made continued talk of support to Russia since the start of the invasion to compound upon that).

China is trying to have it both ways where they simultaneously support Russia and are not entirely thrilled about the invasion no one is buying it.

[Yunru]

So now that Finland joined Nato does this mean that they will send a Nokia phone armor vests to Ukraine solders

[Elder Millennial]

lol the US invaded to punish muslims for 9/11 and get vengeance. It was pretty genocidal. Bush kept saying he saw Gog and Magog at work in the middle east because hes a mental christian. It was religious war.

They literally dissolved the state. partnered and empowered murderers, rapists, pedophiles, torturers, and mass killers. (preserve it wtf are you talking about lol?), attacked iraqi national id and didnt even bother trying to understand the culture or the people. Not to mention the war crimes by troops.

No, Bush invaded Iraq because he had a bone to pick with Saddam, a stupid idiotic bone combined with a complete misunderstanding of regional politics, not because it wanted to somehow "take vengeance for 911."

And yes, the US dismantled the existing state apparatus and went overboard with the de-Baathification, but again that was rooted in a complete lack of understanding of how Iraq worked.

Iraq is a post colonial state, it suffers from the same issues as many other post colonial states do, namely, there was no such thing as "Iraq" until some colonial power invented it. Its borders do not reflect it's ethno-religious make up. The US never tried to alter then ethnic or religious make up of the country, hell the attempt to organize that post war local power sharing government (staffed by a bunch of dissidents who hadn't set foot in Iraq in decades) was an attempt to preserve "Iraq" as a whole, prevent civil war and create a system which isn't dominated by one minority ethnic group to the detriment of all the others. Of course it was an epic failure, because the US knew nothing and understood less, but the intentions were distinctly not "genocidal" quite the opposite.

There are distinct Shia, Sunni and Kurdish regions and areas. While the Shia and Sunni often vie for power, the Kurds never wanted to be part of whole shit show and have been staunch allies of the US in both Gulf Wars. Had the US wanted to dismantle Iraq and could have easily done so along ethno-religious lines, and could have even made a good moral argument for doing so especially on behalf of the Kurds.

I agree that the Iraq war was really really bad, and that that there's a mile long list of people who should be prosecuted as war criminals, but as I said earlier there's a sliding scale of bad and political motivations do influence the ethics of every war.

[Breccia]

So now that Finland joined Nato does this mean that they will send a Nokia phone armor vests to Ukraine solders

This...is...wrong. This is too much battery power for one person.

[ghotihook]

This...is...wrong. This is too much battery power for one person.

I would say too much power, period.

[Iphie]

So now that Finland joined Nato does this mean that they will send a Nokia phone armor vests to Ukraine solders

Finland sends vests, russia complains about violations of the Geneva convention.

[Voidism]

I wonder why Turkey is fine with Salih Muslim (co-chairman of PYD) has residency rights in Finland, but comes up with all kinds of silly reasons for not inviting Sweden.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I wonder why Turkey is fine with Salih Muslim (co-chairman of PYD) has residency rights in Finland, but comes up with all kinds of silly reasons for not inviting Sweden.

Just political posturing in all likelihood. Eventually backed down on Finland which more or less protects Sweden with a land barrier. Then Turkey has its "elections" and the "strong leader" still has something to run on being a hardliner. Then in a year or so the protest silently gets dropped. Sweden is in.

[Corvus]

And in the latest issue of Whats On Fire in Muscovy - the Defence Ministry building in Moscow. Sadly it was only a little fire.

[Edge-]

And in the latest issue of Whats On Fire in Muscovy - the Defence Ministry building in Moscow. Sadly it was only a little fire.

So...no new pope today? That's what the black smoke means, right?

[Logwyn]

So...no new pope today? That's what the black smoke means, right?

Yes Black is no new pope yet and white is we got a new guy!

For the building fire... Who knows!!

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Vietnam-Cambodia war in 1978

Can't think of another

jus ad bellum - edit... forgot no religion

That example is a particularly spicy one, as Vietnam invaded Cambodia after the latter had carried actual cross-border massacres on them. And perhaps more importantly, as Vietnam was firmly in the Soviet camp, not only Mao's China but the US and its allies supported the genocidal Khmer Rouge continued existence on the ground and in international organizations for over a decade...

[Corvus]

Yeah, that one was fucked up - everyone should have been supportive of Vietnam getting rid of the Khmer Rouge, but, you know, geopolitics...

It also led to China's last war. They staged a 3 week invasion of northern Vietnam to support their Khmer Rouge puppets, bit after each side suffered around 60k casualties in 3 weeks by Western estimates, they withdrew. Borders skirmishers continued off and on until 91.