Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Iphie]

Fucking hilarious, and amazing, if legit.

Whaddaya know, YUPPIE actually was sorta right.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...ter-offensive/

It's the telegraph, but some other sources say the same. I guess pricky should start thinking about doing a civil special military operation...

[Saradain]

Whaddaya know, YUPPIE actually was sorta right.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-ne...ter-offensive/

It's the telegraph, but some other sources say the same. I guess pricky should start thinking about doing a civil special military operation...

Nah, he is desperately exaggerating and sensationalizing headlines to get attention. Every "brutal attack" always ends up with "fully countered" in the article, every full-out "liberation" is just a minor success...What ends does this serve? Every Nazi russian offensive is exaggerated as if it would be a doomsday for Ukraine, every success for Ukraine is exaggerated by him to make any Ukraine-positive news pieces less impressive...

Hmm

[YUPPIE]

I am only worried about Putin's rage as a result of Bahkmut. From what we've seen of his appearance and inflection in the parade, he seems like he's always about to explode from impotent anger. Like this news of Bahkmut coming the day after people laughed at his huge fascist/anti-West speech must not be good for his increasingly diminishing sanity.

[Goat7]

What we have learned is Russia's military is absolute horseshit. In fact, if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapon use, Russia could be invaded and taken by blind children with potato guns.

[Iphie]

Nah, he is desperately exaggerating and sensationalizing headlines to get attention. Every "brutal attack" always ends up with "fully countered" in the article, every full-out "liberation" is just a minor success...What ends does this serve? Every Nazi russian offensive is exaggerated as if it would be a doomsday for Ukraine, every success for Ukraine is exaggerated by him to make any Ukraine-positive news pieces less impressive...

Hmm

Saradain, "sorta right", something did happen in Bakhmut that is being reported on and it seems to be a counter attack. Yuppie was hyperbolic yes but not 100% wrong as they usually are.

EDIT:

Something IS happening in Bakhmut:

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/05...a-ukraine-news

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/05...-officials-say

https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine...rages-74d391e9

[zealo]

I don't know, i'm not opposed to pissing off Russia's government for its own sake but wanting to rename a region that's not even part of your country is just weird.

Like what's the point? The name Poland wants to use is even the original german one (albeit translated into polish), as this territory was german before for hundreds of years.

Calling it Muscovy is simply deconstructing their country name of the pan-slavic sentiments that led to that name's creation in the first place. It's no accident that the phrasing of "all Russias" as a plural used to be used as a title for the tsars, and that they throughout history used to call what is now Ukraine a "Little Russia", which is a sentiment still very much alive in Russian nationalism about Ukraine.

As for what Poland is doing, the name they're proposing putting into use has far deeper historical roots than being named after a dude who was in the USSR Politburo during Stalin's time, too.

[Lynarii]

Yeah but that historical name is not being used be people that own the territory.

Belgians also would probably not be too pleased if the Netherlands started calling Belgium "Zuid Nederland" because they owned most of what now known as Belgium sometime during the 1800's.

I think there is however the difference that St Petersburg was russian for hundreds of years by now and those renames were pretty much always done by the russians themselves, whereas Kaliningrad was taken from germany.

Bit of a difference whether you choose to rename that you own by yourself and when someone else decides to call a place you own by the name of the previous owner.

It's less about renaming itself, but rather deliberately choosing the previous name as basis.

Poland isn't really renaming the place anyway, just changing the name that they use to refer to it. It's not actually uncommon at all for the words a place calls itself and what everyone else calls it to not match. Just as an easy example, China. China is NOT the name that the country calls itself, it's what we English speakers call it. At this point, it would be trivially easy for us to change the name we use to match what they call themselves, but we won't, because if there's one thing we inherited from the British Empire it's an insistence on using our name for things no matter how appropriate the names actually are.

[Kralljin]

Calling it Muscovy is simply deconstructing their country name of the pan-slavic sentiments that led to that name's creation in the first place.

I'm not sure if a german name translated into polish is a much better fit, though.

It's no accident that the phrasing of "all Russias" as a plural used to be used as a title for the tsars, and that they throughout history used to call what is now Ukraine a "Little Russia", which is a sentiment still very much alive in Russian nationalism about Ukraine.

However it needs to be recognized that there is (or very likely in future, was) quite the overlap between russian culture and the Ukrainian one.

The entire issue stems from Russia asserting that due to that, those countries have to follow its lead, which obviously runs contrary to Ukraine being a sovereign nation.

As for what Poland is doing, the name they're proposing putting into use has far deeper historical roots than being named after a dude who was in the USSR Politburo during Stalin's time, too.

The point still stands, i think renaming your own territory is perfectly fine and any country can do whatever they like but renaming parts of other countries because you don't like it is just silly.

And those historical roots are frankly tied to something that seems especially odd for Poland to refer to, as this was originally german territory.
Which comes across as questionable when you add to this what @Flarelaine posted that Poland seems to deny legitimacy of russia owning that territory, as it raises the question: Who owns this territory?
Germany? Are we going down this rabbit hole?

Poland isn't really renaming the place anyway, just changing the name that they use to refer to it.

I mean, it's a semantic argument because there is some political decision behind on how you refer to a specific place.

You said it yourself, China is a good example, because whether i refer to Taiwan as the republic of China or Taiwan makes quite the difference.

[Lynarii]

I mean, it's a semantic argument because there is some political decision behind on how you refer to a specific place.

You said it yourself, China is a good example, because whether i refer to Taiwan as the republic of China or Taiwan makes quite the difference.

There is definitely political decision behind it. Mostly what I'm saying that this is merely political gamesmanship rather than a substantive change that will affect anyone who lives or works in the area. Poland is doing it purely because it makes the russians angry, there's little deeper meaning or significance to the move than that. They're using an older name for it because it's something that they can maybe get away with more than because they have a real attachment to the older name, they'd call it 'Putinhasasmalldickland' if they thought they could pass the bill and get it on their official communications.

[Flarelaine]

Who owns this territory?
Germany? Are we going down this rabbit hole?

I don't think returning the territory to Germany is a priority. Heck, the Germans want none of it - it is a run-down trash heap.

But at the same time, leaving an aggressive Russia with a forward post to threaten Europe from does not sound very reassuring.

[Jastall]

I don't think returning the territory to Germany is a priority. Heck, the Germans want none of it - it is a run-down trash heap.

But at the same time, leaving an aggressive Russia with a forward post to threaten Europe from does not sound very reassuring.

Given that Russia can't even invade her neighbors, I doubt having an underdeveloped enclave in the middle of Germany changes much of anything in regards to their capability to threaten the rest of Europe, which is basically 0 now. Nukes are the only thing they have that poses a danger, but Kaliningrad doesn't change anything about that and they won't use them in the first place anyway.

[Poopymonster]

I am only worried about Putin's rage as a result of Bahkmut. From what we've seen of his appearance and inflection in the parade, he seems like he's always about to explode from impotent anger. Like this news of Bahkmut coming the day after people laughed at his huge fascist/anti-West speech must not be good for his increasingly diminishing sanity.

Total bullshit. Putin's limpotent rage has been on show for over a year.

Having said that.

I applaud you. The amount of self restraint you've shown, after so many infractions for it, I know, deep down in your heart you want to say it.

[Elder Millennial]

Given that Russia can't even invade her neighbors, I doubt having an underdeveloped enclave in the middle of Germany changes much of anything in regards to their capability to threaten the rest of Europe, which is basically 0 now. Nukes are the only thing they have that poses a danger, but Kaliningrad doesn't change anything about that and they won't use them in the first place anyway.

Kaliningrad or Königsberg (trolololol) is Russia's richest and least "Russian" (culturally) region (not counting the ethnic Republics). If the Russian state is to fall apart, Kaliningrad would on a pretty short notice turn into a Russian speaking but European Baltic state.

[YUPPIE]

Total bullshit. Putin's limpotent rage has been on show for over a year.
]

I mean today, he made this announcement

Quote: "[I hereby decree that] citizens of the Russian Federation in the reserve army shall be called up to undergo military training in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, forces of the National Guard of the Russian Federation, state security agencies, and the Federal Security Service (FSB) in 2023."

Details: The government reassured the population that these are supposedly routine measures that are carried out every year to improve reservists’ combat readiness.

Background: CNN reported in April, citing Western officials, that the Kremlin is having problems forming a "trained military force", but given the current public mood, it is also afraid to launch a new wave of mobilisation in Russia.
---------

Despite what it says, it clearly indicates Putin isn't plain above conscripting from Russian citizens now

[Poopymonster]

Despite what it says, it clearly indicates Putin isn't plain above conscripting from Russian citizens now

That's news? You just fucking learned that? Today?
My sister in Christ, I've known this for quite some time.
Other people here have known about this for quite some time.
People who aren't on this forum have known Putin would do that.
It's most likely been posted in this thread, multiple times, by multiple people.
Jesus Shitballs I probably even said it.
How the fuck is this news to you?

[Corvus]

So, yeah, Ukraine did take some land back near Bakhmut. Nothing major - about 1km deep across a 3km front. Maybe more, but not much. Not a break through, not the counterattack. How it came about - hoo, boy, does it speak to the problems russia has.

This small piece of land cost the Wankers 500 dead to take according to the Prig. They had been holding the line there, but pulled their troops out to deal with Ukrainian pressure elsewhere. Except they then forgot to tell russian 73rd Brigade they were doing so, meaning the 73rd had no idea their artillery positions no longer had an infantry screen ahead of them. Whoops.

The Ukrainians, who have far better intel than the russians saw this and just moved on up, running over the russians - quiet literally in some places. Video shows a tank crushing dugouts beneath its tracks. The russians fled in panic with some reports putting losses at up to 2 entire companies wiped out. The Ukrainians, being smarter than the russians, halted there rather than over extend. They had done what they set out to do.

Naturally the Prig blamed the 73rd even though it was his men that had hung the 73rd out to die in the first place. Meanwhile Doomer Gherkin is saying that nobody on the russian side is talking to each other - the mod, the various PMCs, the Khadyrovites, the separatists militias, none of them are communicating and everything is a shambles.

[Logwyn]

What we have learned is Russia's military is absolute horseshit. In fact, if it wasn't for the threat of nuclear weapon use, Russia could be invaded and taken by blind children with potato guns.

If only we could not say that their nuclear weapons are as bad as or worse than what we've seen in Ukraine....

[YUPPIE]

yes Russia conscripts from its civilians, but not as desperately as now. Because Putin wanted to keep the facade at least. Now he may go full authoritarian warlord and demand everyone conscript. At that point, we'll see the integrity of the Russian people: are they willing to wholeheartedly die for the state or revolt?

[Iphie]

Naturally the Prig blamed the 73rd even though it was his men that had hung the 73rd out to die in the first place. Meanwhile Doomer Gherkin is saying that nobody on the russian side is talking to each other - the mod, the various PMCs, the Khadyrovites, the separatists militias, none of them are communicating and everything is a shambles.

And the fun part here? This is by design...if they are divided and competing with eachother they have no time to plot against putin. The downside is this crap.

As for the retaking of territory near Bakhmut, it may not be a lot but as you say the impact is rather high.

[Devonitar]

Beyond pissing Russia off, this is also a way of refusing to recognize the legitimacy of Russia's control of said territory. Before WWII, the town was mostly German with sizable Polish and Lithuanian minorities. Now it's all Russian and the Russian name is denying its entire past.

I think pissing Russia off should be considered a pleasant side effect to that decision and territory regonition of post-2WW border changes is a muddy ground. I believe, mostly it's because of the name itself. Kalinin was mostly a harmless piss-soaked piece of shit, but his role in the cesspool that was Stalin's era Politbiuro was to be one guy of rular background as opposed of mostly failed intellectuals and seminary dropouts. So they put him on a high station, effectively as a parity puppet, and gave him a bunch of documents to sign, including order to kill over 20 thousands Polish officers that were captured in 1939.

So I think Poles would rather not see one of the names that had some role in the Katyn Massacre on every map they own.