Russian invasion of Ukraine

[diller]

Yeah but that historical name is not being used be people that own the territory.

True because Russia deported the original inhabitants to Siberia and replaced them with ethic Russians like they did many other places after WW2.

[Vladier]

True because Russia deported the original inhabitants to Siberia and replaced them with ethic Russians like they did many other places after WW2.

Actually, Germans who still remained there after either the evacuation by the Nazis in advance of the Soviet army or didn't flee after were deported to Germany or Austria, as was done in other territories that became part of the Soviet Union, Poland and Czechoslovakia (and aside from Eastern Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia, most Germans there were themselves settled there by the Nazis as part of Generalplan Ost). And those who were forced to labour as reparations would usually do so in the rebuilding territories, not Siberia.

There were those who slipped through the efforts though. Some found work as essentially house help to stay in their homes, and I recall a story of feral German children found dying from starvation and eating unripened apples, since they were afraid to even approach Russian settlers.

[Kralljin]

True because Russia deported the original inhabitants to Siberia and replaced them with ethic Russians like they did many other places after WW2.

As @Vladier pointed out, the civillian population that wasn't evacuated by the Nazis during the waning days of WWII were largely deported to modern day germany, rather than sent to Siberia - that was largely the fate of german POW.

I think pissing Russia off should be considered a pleasant side effect to that decision and territory regonition of post-2WW border changes is a muddy ground.

Yeah but Poland opening that can of worms of all countries is beyond me.

The deportation and annexation of the former eastern territories of german territories was largely to the benefit of poland.
When people say that Russia's invasion of Ukraine caused the biggest refugee crisis in europe since WWII, then that deportation of germans from those territorities is what they are referring to.

Main reason why this isn't a bigger point is because this is still overshadowed by the crimes of the Nazis during WWII, but still, Soviet Union and Poland basically took parts of germany, deported its population without a formal treaty.
(West) Germany didn't formally recognize modern day borders of poland until 1990, since this was a criteria for the Allies to agree on German reunification.

It's a very two faced issue, countries such as Poland and Czech republic basically avoid recognizing that as a violation because the descendants of those expelled could pursue reparations and Germany isn't pushing for it because they fear to stir the hive and get sent a reparation bill for the occupation during WWII (which Poland did send over to the German Government anyway rather recently).

[Corvus]

The UK has confirmed it is sending long range Storm Shadow cruise missiles to Ukraine. The UK were the first to pledge western armour, now the first to pledge cruise missiles. Hopefully that opens the door to other countries doing the same, just as it did with tanks.

[Flarelaine]

Main reason why this isn't a bigger point is because this is still overshadowed by the crimes of the Nazis during WWII, but still, Soviet Union and Poland basically took parts of germany, deported its population without a formal treaty.

To add a bit of nuance, the Soviet Union grabbed half of Poland and then gave quite a bit of Germany to Poland so they could claim Poland - who the war started over, after all - did not just get mugged by their supposed saviours.

(West) Germany didn't formally recognize modern day borders of poland until 1990, since this was a criteria for the Allies to agree on German reunification.

It's a very two faced issue, countries such as Poland and Czech republic basically avoid recognizing that as a violation because the descendants of those expelled could pursue reparations and Germany isn't pushing for it because they fear to stir the hive and get sent a reparation bill for the occupation during WWII (which Poland did send over to the German Government anyway rather recently).

My recollection is that West Germany actually agreed to Poland's borders and it was East Germany (who those territories would have belonged to) who held out on it.

And a good point over Poles and Czechs not fussing over it, because they also took part in forced resettlements indeed.

[diller]

As @Vladier pointed out, the civillian population that wasn't evacuated by the Nazis during the waning days of WWII were largely deported to modern day germany, rather than sent to Siberia - that was largely the fate of german POW.

So you ignored the actual point I was making, no matter where they were deported to they were replaced by ethnic Russians.

[YUPPIE]

Russian authorities will launch construction of a village outside Moscow for conservative-minded Americans and Canadians next year, the state-run RIA Novosti news agency reported Thursday.

Russia has for years positioned itself as a bastion of "traditional" values in contrast with Western liberalism as its relations with the West have deteriorated over its 2014 annexation of Crimea and 2022 full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

Timur Beslangurov, a migration lawyer at Moscow’s VISTA Foreign Business Support, claimed that “around 200 families” wish to emigrate to Russia for “ideological reasons.”

“The reason is propaganda of radical values: Today they have 70 genders, and who knows what will come next,” RIA Novosti quoted Beslangurov as saying, echoing President Vladimir Putin’s frequently deployed grievances against Western countries’ comparative gender freedom.

“Many normal people emigrate and are considering Russia, but they’re faced with huge bureaucratic problems with Russia’s migration law,” he said.

He said the Moscow region administration has greenlit the construction of the expat village and that it will be financed by the relocating families.

The lawyer further claimed without offering evidence that “tens of thousands” of foreigners without Russian roots would like to move to Russia for similar ideological reasons.

The construction of a migrant village for Americans and Canadians has not yet been publicly announced by officials.

Russia, which has ranked among the worst countries for expats in recent years, experienced a major downturn in tourism and other foreign arrivals after the invasion of Ukraine.

Still, Federal Security Service (FSB) data recorded an uptick in visits for tourism, work, study and business to Russia in early 2023.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/...-expats-a81101

[Kralljin]

My recollection is that West Germany actually agreed to Poland's borders and it was East Germany (who those territories would have belonged to) who held out on it.

East Germany recognized pretty early the polish borders, i doubt Moscow would've tolerated any tensions between states of the soviet bloc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Zgorzelec

West Germany didn't start to move until the 1970's when they started to open towards the Eastern bloc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Warsaw_(1970)

So you ignored the actual point I was making, no matter where they were deported to they were replaced by ethnic Russians.

I feel like i'm missing something here, i merely corrected you on the location they were being deported.
I'm frankly missing any point your post has beyond pointing out that people were deported from these areas.

[diller]

I'm frankly missing any point your post has beyond pointing out that people were deported from these areas.

It was in my original reply, but whatever...

Actually I guess I have to spell it out for you.

Your argument against using the old name was that people living there there weren't using it, hence my reply that the people living there were forcibly removed.

[Elder Millennial]

Russian authorities will launch construction of a village outside Moscow for conservative-minded Americans and Canadians next year, the state-run RIA Novosti news agency reported Thursday.

Russia has for years positioned itself as a bastion of "traditional" values in contrast with Western liberalism as its relations with the West have deteriorated over its 2014 annexation of Crimea and 2022 full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

Timur Beslangurov, a migration lawyer at Moscow’s VISTA Foreign Business Support, claimed that “around 200 families” wish to emigrate to Russia for “ideological reasons.”

“The reason is propaganda of radical values: Today they have 70 genders, and who knows what will come next,” RIA Novosti quoted Beslangurov as saying, echoing President Vladimir Putin’s frequently deployed grievances against Western countries’ comparative gender freedom.

“Many normal people emigrate and are considering Russia, but they’re faced with huge bureaucratic problems with Russia’s migration law,” he said.

He said the Moscow region administration has greenlit the construction of the expat village and that it will be financed by the relocating families.

The lawyer further claimed without offering evidence that “tens of thousands” of foreigners without Russian roots would like to move to Russia for similar ideological reasons.

The construction of a migrant village for Americans and Canadians has not yet been publicly announced by officials.

Russia, which has ranked among the worst countries for expats in recent years, experienced a major downturn in tourism and other foreign arrivals after the invasion of Ukraine.

Still, Federal Security Service (FSB) data recorded an uptick in visits for tourism, work, study and business to Russia in early 2023.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/...-expats-a81101

Another Potemkin village, tho there are some radical loons who will move to Russia because in the end they really just can't stand living in a pluralistic free society. It's the same types that move to Montana to start a white Ethno state.

I just feel sad for their children.

The increase in travels to Russia has to do with the fact that Russians generally can't travel outside Russia. So Russian diaspora who still has family in Russia or westerners who have Russian partners can only really see them if they travel to Russia or one of the few third party locations Russians are still allowed to travel to, like Turkey, Dubai, Georgia, Thailand etc. Same for people who still have business with Russia.

Also that FSB data about uptick in visits also doesn't mention where from. Are these Chinese business travelers? Iranian?

[Gabriel]

>trusting FSB numbers

[alach]

Russian authorities will launch construction of a village outside Moscow for conservative-minded Americans and Canadians next year, the state-run RIA Novosti news agency reported Thursday.

Russia has for years positioned itself as a bastion of "traditional" values in contrast with Western liberalism as its relations with the West have deteriorated over its 2014 annexation of Crimea and 2022 full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

Timur Beslangurov, a migration lawyer at Moscow’s VISTA Foreign Business Support, claimed that “around 200 families” wish to emigrate to Russia for “ideological reasons.”

“The reason is propaganda of radical values: Today they have 70 genders, and who knows what will come next,” RIA Novosti quoted Beslangurov as saying, echoing President Vladimir Putin’s frequently deployed grievances against Western countries’ comparative gender freedom.

“Many normal people emigrate and are considering Russia, but they’re faced with huge bureaucratic problems with Russia’s migration law,” he said.

He said the Moscow region administration has greenlit the construction of the expat village and that it will be financed by the relocating families.

The lawyer further claimed without offering evidence that “tens of thousands” of foreigners without Russian roots would like to move to Russia for similar ideological reasons.

The construction of a migrant village for Americans and Canadians has not yet been publicly announced by officials.

Russia, which has ranked among the worst countries for expats in recent years, experienced a major downturn in tourism and other foreign arrivals after the invasion of Ukraine.

Still, Federal Security Service (FSB) data recorded an uptick in visits for tourism, work, study and business to Russia in early 2023.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/...-expats-a81101

I sure hope this turns out to be true.
A place for bigots, racists and homophobes to voluntarily fuck off to and let the rest of the world progress without their constant hinderances.

[Elder Millennial]

>trusting FSB numbers

I actually believe those numbers. It's the whole Cuba/Venezuela phenomenon. Actually this is broadly true for most countries with so called "weak passports" but large diasporas. Whether you're a relative or a business traveler it's easier for you to go to Russia than it is for a Russian to come to you.

It's also often an important source of foreign reserve currency.

I actually think it's time for both the EU and US to actually look into possibly regulating or restricting the flow of reserve currency to Russia by these means.

- - - Updated - - -

I sure hope this turns out to be true.
A place for bigots, racists and homophobes to voluntarily fuck off to and let the rest of the world progress without their constant hinderances.

If it were that easy.

Most racists, bigots and assholes in general fantasize about their 4th Reich utopias, but wouldn't actually really want to live in one because those places actually suck to live in for everyone.

[Kallisto]

I sure hope this turns out to be true.
A place for bigots, racists and homophobes to voluntarily fuck off to and let the rest of the world progress without their constant hinderances.

Or a place for them to go, get training and return back to shove more Russian propaganda all over the west.

[jonnysensible]

looks like the ukranians might be beginning to pile on the pressure, lots of russians crying about ukranian movements and contact on lines.

[Flarelaine]

>trusting FSB numbers

They might be correct. A lot of the domestic workforce either fled the country or was drafted and now they're recruiting big time from former Soviet Republics in Central Asia.

[Benggaul]

Or a place for them to go, get training and return back to shove more Russian propaganda all over the west.

Why would they be allowed to return if they voluntarily decided to join the opposition?

[Gorsameth]

Why would they be allowed to return if they voluntarily decided to join the opposition?

Because they have the right to do so as citizens of whatever country they came from and stripping away that right isn't easy.

Same shit happened with people running to live in the ISIS caliphate and wanting to come back after that fell.

[Zaydin]

I'm hearing rumblings that the Ukrainian counteroffensive might have started. Take it with a grain of salt however; I haven't seen it reported by any reputable sources so far. Russian bloggers on Telegram are apparently losing their shit though.

[Iphie]

I'm hearing rumblings that the Ukrainian counteroffensive might have started. Take it with a grain of salt however; I haven't seen it reported by any reputable sources so far. Russian bloggers on Telegram are apparently losing their shit though.

Which would be odd, as Zelenskyy apparently just said they're delaying, faints, misdirections and obfuscations...

edit: but yes, there seems to be some movement where wankers flee and rf units surrender.