1. #31021
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    So if the rumour about Prig contacting the Ukrainian military is true, is it possible that Ukraine "conceded" Bakhmut so that Prig would have an excuse to take his troops out of the country?

    All feels a bit conspiracy theorist to me. Especially since it would involve Ukraine trusting Prig's word.
    Bakhmut doesn’t actually hold any major strategic value despite how obsessed the Russians have been about it, especially after they lost control of Izium, its just where Ukraine decided to make a bigger stand to kill as many Russians as possible.

    Far more likely is that Prig just wants Wagner out to focus on being dipshits in Africa because there’s way less personal risk to them there.

  2. #31022
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    What China does now is building a coalition of countries in its pocket, and Russia is an important piece there.
    The thing is, this has began to massively backfire. China offered massive loans to select countries that had trouble acquiring loans otherwise and the significant majority of those countries (e.g. Pakistan) are completely unable to repay (because there were no adequate covenants for the use of those loans, only clauses to force repayment to China at an absolute priority). This is going to backfire immensely over the next few years with said countries already in deep austerity with massive portions of their GDP going entirely to loan repayment. When your government cannot offer basic services because all your money is going to China, public sentiment towards China will soon TANK. This is what is propping up Chinese efforts for de dollarisation after all. Hatred towards the West because of colonisation is not going to last for the rest of human history.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-05-22 at 08:32 AM.

  3. #31023
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Bakhmut doesn’t actually hold any major strategic value despite how obsessed the Russians have been about it, especially after they lost control of Izium, its just where Ukraine decided to make a bigger stand to kill as many Russians as possible.

    Far more likely is that Prig just wants Wagner out to focus on being dipshits in Africa because there’s way less personal risk to them there.
    Also the absolutely staggering amount of losses and Wagner losing practically all its combat capabilities as a result combined with a lack of supplies.

    Its not just that its safer in Africa, its that Wagner is also not capable of contributing to the Ukraine campaign anymore. Their only option is to get out and spend decades rebuilding.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #31024
    Brewmaster Cynical Asshole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The thing is, this has began to massively backfire. China offered massive loans to select countries that had trouble acquiring loans otherwise and the significant majority of those countries (e.g. Pakistan) are completely unable to repay (because there were no adequate covenants for the use of those loans, only clauses to force repayment to China at an absolute priority). This is going to backfire immensely over the next few years with said countries already in deep austerity with massive portions of their GDP going entirely to loan repayment. When your government cannot offer basic services because all your money is going to China, public sentiment towards China will soon TANK. This is what is propping up Chinese efforts for de dollarisation after all. Hatred towards the West because of colonisation is not going to last for the rest of human history.
    That's EXACTLY what China wanted! Like...what do you mean, dude?! China knew it will never see any actual money back, which is why they asked for collateral such as seaports and other important local companies and lands. With these things under Chinese control, they got those countries by the balls, not to mention the taxes from international shipping routes going straight into the pockets of China!

    China isn't lending money to these countries! CHINA IS BUYING THESE COUNTRIES! And that's the whole point of "Belt&Road"!

    You actually think China is lending money because it wants interest?! BRUH!
    Last edited by Cynical Asshole; 2023-05-22 at 09:30 AM.

  5. #31025
    And what happens when those countries change their minds? Is China going to send in troops like a colonial power?

  6. #31026
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Reportedly the "Legion of Freedom for Russia" has started a "special military operation" in Belgorod. Border checkpoints have reportedly been destroyed and the leadership in Belgorod is panicky.

  7. #31027
    Nothing to worry about. Just little green men who bought their gear at an army surplus store.

  8. #31028
    it would be funny if the counter offensive just went north instead of south or east, probably those same russian geezers who were fucking around there a few months ago

  9. #31029
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Asshole View Post
    That's EXACTLY what China wanted! Like...what do you mean, dude?! China knew it will never see any actual money back, which is why they asked for collateral such as seaports and other important local companies and lands. With these things under Chinese control, they got those countries by the balls, not to mention the taxes from international shipping routes going straight into the pockets of China!

    China isn't lending money to these countries! CHINA IS BUYING THESE COUNTRIES! And that's the whole point of "Belt&Road"!

    You actually think China is lending money because it wants interest?! BRUH!
    Exactly.

    Country that can't repay the loan simply "cedes" their ports, infrastructure, natural, human and geopolitical resources as part of a deal - China exploits it massively in Africa for a decade already.

    China does not give a damn that many of its loans are bad loans, because in return they get to pocket that country and its guts - and the public anger is something local government will have to deal with, China doesn't give a fuck about that one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    And what happens when those countries change their minds? Is China going to send in troops like a colonial power?
    It's not some sort of deal between pals - loans are loans, you don't repay your debts - you default and plunge your economy into chaos. Default is default - it instantly puts said country in a doghouse with international lenders for many years. Said lenders don't care if you defaulted on Chinese loans, Russian loans or Martian loans, the fact that you did not pay back the loans as expected is what matters.

    So, what often happens is that those countries cut a deal with a lender, in this case - China. And the deal is often, instead of money - you take control of our key port or railway infrastructure or get exclusive rights on resources. China is a-okay with that, it's what it does in Africa to a great success.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2023-05-22 at 11:14 AM.

  10. #31030
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    sip
    What I'd find amusing, if it wasn't sad is that these same countries that for the past couple of years have been hailing these loans as a better alternative to exploitative Western loans and investments are now lining up at Western institutions like the IMF, EU etc asking for bailouts so they can pay off their Chinese loans.

  11. #31031
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    What I'd find amusing, if it wasn't sad is that these same countries that for the past couple of years have been hailing these loans as a better alternative to exploitative Western loans and investments are now lining up at Western institutions like the IMF, EU etc asking for bailouts so they can pay off their Chinese loans.
    not to mention the infrastructure they have built is low quality and will cost more in the long run with all the repairs.

  12. #31032
    James Hetfield of Metallica has stirred outrage in Russia. Heavy metal band Metallica frontman James Hetfield recently visited a wounded Ukrainian soldier, telling him to "Kill 'em All" (the name of the band's debut album).

    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  13. #31033
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    James Hetfield of Metallica has stirred outrage in Russia. Heavy metal band Metallica frontman James Hetfield recently visited a wounded Ukrainian soldier, telling him to "Kill 'em All" (the name of the band's debut album).

    hell yeaa ive gotta work for him in about 2 weeks time, good lad.

  14. #31034
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    What I'd find amusing, if it wasn't sad is that these same countries that for the past couple of years have been hailing these loans as a better alternative to exploitative Western loans and investments are now lining up at Western institutions like the IMF, EU etc asking for bailouts so they can pay off their Chinese loans.
    I have to disappoint you there - IMF loans are a cancer in their own ways offering loans, but asking for conditions that many poor countries can ill afford and are forced to accept, with burden more often than not falling on the poorest.

    The reality is - there are no free meals and the strings attached with these loans offer the lenders quite a bit of powers that worth more than just the interest. IMF is not a charity; in case you thought it was.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    not to mention the infrastructure they have built is low quality and will cost more in the long run with all the repairs.
    I'm not seeing West particularly rushing to the rescue on that one.

    I've been in Addis - there will soon be more Chinese writing there than English, but guess what - they do build a shitton of huge infrastructure projects ranging from anything you can think of starting from railways and roads and down to schools and public facilities.

    Yes, as I mentioned before - China will own their guts before long, but the real benefits are there too.

    African country leaders are not idiots, they understand everything very well - but they'd rather sell out to China, than have their heads on a platter of hungry and angry populace. And Asian countries? Even more so, China is right there at their doorstep and it's a rising power, while U.S. is busy trying to decide whether they want to put a clown or a zombie on the throne for almost a decade soon.

  15. #31035
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    What I'd find amusing, if it wasn't sad is that these same countries that for the past couple of years have been hailing these loans as a better alternative to exploitative Western loans and investments are now lining up at Western institutions like the IMF, EU etc asking for bailouts so they can pay off their Chinese loans.
    IMF covenants are extremely neo liberal. On a doctrinal level they require opening access to the market from countries that have poorly developed local industries that are not in any way competitive internationally; remove the protections they have placed on the local industries and you practically condemn them to massive trade deficits that are only slightly rectified by completely trashing the local currency and ballooning inflation. Meanwhile any haircuts to debt will almost always destroy the local banking sector first, thus removing any liquidity for local entrepreneurship.

    That said, still better to handing out all your local resources to the Chinese because you wanted to stick it up to your former colonial invaders.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    African country leaders are not idiots, they understand everything very well - but they'd rather sell out to China, than have their heads on a platter of hungry and angry populace. And Asian countries? Even more so, China is right there at their doorstep and it's a rising power, while U.S. is busy trying to decide whether they want to put a clown or a zombie on the throne for almost a decade soon.
    Honestly the interesting counterplay seen specifically with Sri Lanka is India. India offered far stronger economic help and in better terms than China did and Sri Lanka accepted it readily and is slowly bouncing back when it was in the brink of default last year. Obviously this is not an option for Pakistan or Bangladesh but it IS an option for other ASEAN countries.

  16. #31036
    Those guys that took Belgorod should hold referendums about joining Ukraine.

  17. #31037
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsRainingMetal View Post
    Those guys that took Belgorod should hold referendums about joining Ukraine.
    Prig's already complaining how the MoD forces are useless. Civilians are fleeing the warzone, a russian helicopter succesfully attempted "become the centerpiece of a crater" maneuver, rosvergardia, police and military are being rushed in. Ukraine denies involvement...

  18. #31038
    Quote Originally Posted by ItsRainingMetal View Post
    Those guys that took Belgorod should hold referendums about joining Ukraine.
    it is a special military operation. Russia expansion of the CSTO provoked Ukraine into this action.

  19. #31039
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Prig's already complaining how the MoD forces are useless. Civilians are fleeing the warzone, a russian helicopter succesfully attempted "become the centerpiece of a crater" maneuver, rosvergardia, police and military are being rushed in. Ukraine denies involvement...
    No Ukrainians are involved - its entirely being done by the two russian groups. Reportedly they have taken a Bakhmut sized territory in just 1 day. I doubt it will last but it will cause panic and force russia to redeploy yet more troops before the real counteroffensive begins.

    - - - Updated - - -

    russian cope is trying to claim its all a trap - they 'let' let the attackers in just to trap them.

  20. #31040
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    russian cope is trying to claim its all a trap - they 'let' let the attackers in just to trap them.
    It was a feint ok Kyiv!

    I imagine they are going to go in, fuck shit up, kill some border guards, blow some checkpoints a get the fuck out of there.

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