Russian invasion of Ukraine

[alkyd]

If the invasion continues, the current Ukrainian government will go into exile declaring newly installed pro-Russian government illegal, with rest of the world refusing to recognize it.

[Sinfelle]

The Western world is the same place as it was in 1938 with Hitler, on the basis of appeasement, and Putin did not respect the appeasement. That's the truth. In my view, mere economic sanctions — which is an intermediate form of sanction — do not work. The use of force is needed, a support for Ukraine, more than what is being put on. That's my view. If the Western world just let Ukraine falls, Bulgaria will be next, then the Baltic States, and so on. Just as Hitler's Germany did in the 1930s

[MCMLXXXII]

China has already stated it will support Russia economically, specifically with Russian wheat imports. This was after the invasion

China is in a perfect position. They can trade with the rest of the world AND Russia. However they will never back Russia completely because that would isolate them just like Russia.

[Makabreska]

So like, what is it to gain for Putin? Obviously he will calm his hate boner against Ukraine for trying to break away, but what are real economic/political gains here for him when confronted with all the shit he will get in next years? Is it all for his personal vendetta?

[alkyd]

The Western world is the same place as it was in 1938 with Hitler, on the basis of appeasement, and Putin did not respect the appeasement. That's the truth. In my view, mere economic sanctions — which is an intermediate form of sanction — do not work. The use of force is needed, a support for Ukraine, more than what is being put on. That's my view. If the Western world just let Ukraine falls, Bulgaria will be next, then the Baltic States, and so on. Just as Hitler's Germany did in the 1930s

I wonder if pro-Russian government takes over Ukraine, will the Western world sanction Ukraine too and its people with it?

[WowIsDead64]

What you don't realize due to being uninformed by western mass media, is that Putin clearly stated, that he isn't going to occupy Ukraine. All he wants - to demilitarize and denazificate it in order to achieve peace, safety and stop this 8 year war. It's just funny to hear, when some people cry "stop this war now", while they were silent for 8 years, while this war was actually happening.

[Sinfelle]

China is in a perfect position. They can trade with the rest of the world AND Russia. However they will never back Russia completely because that would isolate them just like Russia.

China controls too much of the world market for us to cut them out too. But they are aligned with Russian views of pushing back western influence. Don't think they will throw their hat into the ring until all out war is declared. Commies stick with commies.

[MCMLXXXII]

The Western world is the same place as it was in 1938 with Hitler, on the basis of appeasement, and Putin did not respect the appeasement. That's the truth. In my view, mere economic sanctions — which is an intermediate form of sanction — do not work. The use of force is needed, a support for Ukraine, more than what is being put on. That's my view. If the Western world just let Ukraine falls, Bulgaria will be next, then the Baltic States, and so on. Just as Hitler's Germany did in the 1930s

Sadly, for the Ukrainians, there is a significant difference between Ukraine and the Baltic states. The latter are members of NATO. Putting is behaving like a madman but he wouldn't dare to confront NATO directly. Well at least for now....

- - - Updated - - -

What you don't realize due to being uninformed by your western mass media, is that Putin clearly stated, that he isn't going to occupy Ukraine. All he wants - to demilitarize and denationalize it in order to achieve peace, safety and stop this 8 year war. It's just funny to hear, when some people cry "stop this war now", while they were silent for 8 years, while this war was actually happening.

Putin also said he wasn't going to invade Ukraine, it was just exercising.... Then today happened.
Again, slow down on the RT kool-aid.

[Daymanmb]

Well, not literally "giving" them nuclear weapons, but allowing them to use ex-soviet technologies to make ones. Imagine Hitler having nuke. Great thing for world's security.

Isnt Zalinskyy Jewish? What about him invites this comparison?

Wait, he is... he lost his great grandfather and 3 great uncles to the holocaust..

[Xyonai]

If you're racist and nationalist with "special descent" syndrome - then yeah, you're nazi.

This rational is absolutely fucking stupid. It'd be like justifying an invasion of the US because a subset of Conservative voters are also Nazis.

Take your spoon-fed propaganda horeshit to somewhere else.

[Magnagarde]

This rational is absolutely fucking stupid. It'd be like justifying an invasion of the US because a subset of Conservative voters are also Nazis.

Take your spoon-fed propaganda horeshit to somewhere else.

According to the reasoning you quoted, Russia should invade parts of their own cities due to the sheer number of orthodox far right nationalists that live there.

[Slant]

There's a core problem with pacifism, as an ideological principle; it has only two possible stability states;

1> Everyone's a pacifist, forever, and can't choose otherwise. This is obviously just fantastical nonsense.
2> You fundamentally and regularly rely on others to apply force or the threat of force in your name and on your behalf, making your claims of "pacifism" ring hollow. You're just not getting your own hands bloody.

The first isn't a valid stance, if stability is an expectation you hold. It's waiting for literally anyone to come in and subjugate you and your interests, because you've decided resisting their use of violence is not acceptable to you. Worse; your pacifism then becomes selfish, as you're protecting only how clean your own hands are, not the degree of violence in the world.

I can accept pacifism as a position from people like Jainists, who have no expectations of stability whatsoever, because at least they're honest about this. Most of the rest claiming to be "pacifists" are just selfish cowards who want to keep their own hands clean while letting others engage in violence in their names.

I tend to agree. I've long defended our stance in that it used to be enough to apply soft power. But today many people realised and have to admit that there's a limit to soft power. And this will have a lasting effect. If they so much as spit on Romania, we'll have a new world war.

[Logwyn]

The Western world is the same place as it was in 1938 with Hitler, on the basis of appeasement, and Putin did not respect the appeasement. That's the truth. In my view, mere economic sanctions — which is an intermediate form of sanction — do not work. The use of force is needed, a support for Ukraine, more than what is being put on. That's my view. If the Western world just let Ukraine falls, Bulgaria will be next, then the Baltic States, and so on. Just as Hitler's Germany did in the 1930s

Going into Bulgaria and/or the Baltic States means war with NATO. The only thing that keep this from if is Ukraine isn't a member of NATO. I bet that Georiga will be banging the drums to join now. Finland too maybe?

The other issue is no one can trust Putin on anything now. Or really shouldn't.

[Flarelaine]

That's a very gradeschool level understanding of the geopolitics that's been going on for decades. However, Russia also does this as well and has been supporting, training, funding terrorists in these Eastern European countries to destabilize their governments.

Not to mention funding various flavours of right-wing nutjobs in Western Europe to sabotage unity. Farage. Le Pen. Salvini. Probably others.

[Gorsameth]

So like, what is it to gain for Putin? Obviously he will calm his hate boner against Ukraine for trying to break away, but what are real economic/political gains here for him when confronted with all the shit he will get in next years? Is it all for his personal vendetta?

From another forum

For those who ask: “Why does Ukraine interest Russia so much ? “

It is the second largest country by area in Europe by area and has a population
of over 40 million - more than Poland.
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd place in Europe and 10th place in the world in terms of titanium ore reserves;
2nd place in the world in terms of explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world's reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd place in Europe in terms of mercury ore reserves;
3rd place in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th place in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)
Ukraine is an important agricultural country:
1st in Europe in terms of arable land area;
3rd place in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world's volume);
1st place in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd place in the world in barley production and 4th place in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th place in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th place in the world in wheat exports;
9th place in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th place in the world in cheese exports.
Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.
Ukraine is an important industrialised country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
Europe's 2nd’s and the world’s 4th largest natural gas pipeline system;
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in terms of installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd place in Europe and 11th in the world in terms of rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd place in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world's largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th place in the world in clay exports
4th place in the world in titanium exports
8th place in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th place in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

Ukraine matters. That is why its independence is important to the rest of the world.

[Fuiking]

Not to mention funding various flavours of right-wing nutjobs in Western Europe to sabotage unity. Farage. Le Pen. Salvini. Probably others.

Toilet Boy, aka Baudet.

[Jessicka]

There's nothing happy about the past two days. Not for Ukrainians. Not for Russians. Not for anyone. Germany's now in the process of reevaluating our pacifist stance, too. Our leftish-liberal fucking Green foreign minister is now going "Huh, I'm mad that our military is so messed up".

She's from a hardcore pacifist party.

On the bright side, those NATO 2% probably won't be an issue anymore...

The 2% likely won’t, but was never really an issue anyway. NATO was set up to defend Europe in a ground war with Russia and I have no doubt it’d be plenty capable.

It was made up as an issue by Trump to justify his military spending, and bash on Europe because populism, but America’s military doctrine isn’t about defending Europe from a Russian land invasion. It’s about force projection and making everything America’s business by making America both a threat to, and claiming threat from everyone - world policing if you will. That is considerably more expensive than NATO in Europe’s more limited goal.

Also perhaps worth noting that the US has objected repeatedly and loudly against a cohesive EU European Defence Force.

[Fuiking]

The 2% likely won’t, but was never really an issue anyway. NATO was set up to defend Europe in a ground war with Russia and I have no doubt it’d be plenty capable.

It was made up as an issue by Trump to justify his military spending, and bash on Europe because populism, but America’s military doctrine isn’t about defending Europe from a Russian land invasion. It’s about force projection and making everything America’s business by making America both a threat to, and claiming threat from everyone - world policing if you will. That is considerably more expensive than NATO in Europe’s more limited goal.

Netherlands cant even shoot, they have no ammo... (shit ass weak country, huzzah!)

[Makabreska]

From another forum

But then it means Putin has to be able to hold the country. Long time occupation would be too costly and puppet gov would be quickly kicked out by majorly pissed citizens. For me he simply wants to ruin the country and make an example.

[Sinfelle]

What you don't realize due to being uninformed by western mass media, is that Putin clearly stated, that he isn't going to occupy Ukraine. All he wants - to demilitarize and denazificate it in order to achieve peace, safety and stop this 8 year war. It's just funny to hear, when some people cry "stop this war now", while they were silent for 8 years, while this war was actually happening.

Sounds a lot like what Hitler said....