1. #31221
    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    Im sure the conservatives see the value in real time, real world weapons testing.

    Not to sound callous but the usage of the HIMARs and the Patriots in action has probably saved millions in tests, and on top of that against some of the best weapons the russians had at their disposal.
    The secondary aspect is plainly economical.

    The money given to Ukraine doesn't land anywhere, because those weapon systems are made in the US.
    (also advertisement for those systems)
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2023-05-29 at 03:34 PM.

  2. #31222
    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    Im sure the conservatives see the value in real time, real world weapons testing.

    Not to sound callous but the usage of the HIMARs and the Patriots in action has probably saved millions in tests, and on top of that against some of the best weapons the russians had at their disposal.
    real world testing is ofcourse great but also the example this sets to the rest of the world.

    "US weapons allowed a comparatively small nation to utterly destroy the much larger Russian army" is a hell of an advertisement slogan.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  3. #31223
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Here's something I didn't expect to do - defend Lindsey Graham. The russians have issued an arrest warrant for him and medvedev insinuated he be assassinated whikw the head of RT outright called for it.

    His crime? Saying aid to Ukraine was the best money ever spent (which is true.)
    This is one of those things where the only answer is "Do it. Come on. Try. Fuck around and find out."

    As much as I absolutely despise Trump and everything Trump, a few years back when the Russians where issuing threats about cyber attacks, he had the CIA/NSA literally send physical cease and desist letters to all Russian hackers associated with the Russian government. A physical letter, to their house, with their real names.

    It's basically saying "Bitch, I know where you live."

  4. #31224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    This is one of those things where the only answer is "Do it. Come on. Try. Fuck around and find out."

    As much as I absolutely despise Trump and everything Trump, a few years back when the Russians where issuing threats about cyber attacks, he had the CIA/NSA literally send physical cease and desist letters to all Russian hackers associated with the Russian government. A physical letter, to their house, with their real names.

    It's basically saying "Bitch, I know where you live."
    To me, that sounds like one of those things that probably would have happened, regardless who was the president at the time. I highly doubt something like that was Trumps idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  5. #31225
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    To me, that sounds like one of those things that probably would have happened, regardless who was the president at the time. I highly doubt something like that was Trumps idea.
    Again, I despise Trump. I also doubt it was his idea personally, but he did significantly reform the US cyber-security footing. It was an area which the US significantly neglected prior.

    CISA, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency was created by the Trump administration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybers...ecurity_Agency
    https://www.cisa.gov/topics/cybersec...infrastructure

    And this was actually something that was part of the Trump campaign in 2016

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/campaign-20...-cybersecurity and was not a meaningful part of the Clinton campaign.

    Again, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    Yes, the dude is an ass. But someone in his campaign early on has identified an actual real issue, and absolutely shockingly, for once, they actually did something about it.

  6. #31226
    the idea that Trump did anything that goes against Russian interests is hard to believe considering he's obviously a Russian agent
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  7. #31227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The secondary aspect is plainly economical.

    The money given to Ukraine doesn't land anywhere, because those weapon systems are made in the US.
    (also advertisement for those systems)
    Didn't a bunch of NATO allies place orders for HIMARs after seeing how useful they were to the Ukrainian military?
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  8. #31228
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    the idea that Trump did anything that goes against Russian interests is hard to believe considering he's obviously a Russian agent
    CISA wasn't specifically created to deal with the Russians.

  9. #31229
    so it seems Russia has been escalating their drone and missile strikes lately, on an unprecedented level. Are they ever gonna run out?
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  10. #31230
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so it seems Russia has been escalating their drone and missile strikes lately, on an unprecedented level. Are they ever gonna run out?
    Unprecedented level? Source plz

  11. #31231
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Unprecedented level? Source plz
    Like we've never seen them this desperate. They're pulling out all the stops instantaneously than periodically.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  12. #31232
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    so it seems Russia has been escalating their drone and missile strikes lately, on an unprecedented level. Are they ever gonna run out?
    And all their shit gets blown out of the sky by Patriot systems. Is the strategy to make Patriot run out of ammo? Pretty dumb strategy, but then Russia has done nothing but dumb strategies since the war started, so it sounds about right.

  13. #31233
    Context:

    Valerii Zaluzhnyi, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, has reported that the Russian occupiers launched 11 Iskander-M and Iskander-K missiles on Kyiv Oblast and the city of Kyiv on the morning of 29 May. All the missiles were shot down by the air defence units.

    For the second time in 24 hours, the enemy has launched a missile attack on the territory of Ukraine.

    At about 11:30, they attacked Kyiv Oblast with ballistic and cruise ground-based missiles from the Iskander operative-tactical rocket system.

    11 missiles were launched in total: Iskander-M and Iskander-K, from the Northern front.

    All targets were destroyed by the forces and assets of the air defence of Ukraine.

    n the morning of 29 May, the Russian army launched its 16th attack on Kyiv in May, this time during the day. Previously, Russia attacked the Ukrainian capital on two nights in a row, before and after Kyiv Day (28 May – ed.).

    On Monday, 29 May, missile fragments fell in several districts of Kyiv.

    Yurii Ihnat, the spokesperson for the Air Force of Ukraine, reported that this time, the Russians could attack the Ukrainian capital with Iskander missiles, as well as S-300 or S-400 missiles, which also fly on a ballistic trajectory.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  14. #31234
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Context:

    Valerii Zaluzhnyi, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, has reported that the Russian occupiers launched 11 Iskander-M and Iskander-K missiles on Kyiv Oblast and the city of Kyiv on the morning of 29 May. All the missiles were shot down by the air defence units.

    For the second time in 24 hours, the enemy has launched a missile attack on the territory of Ukraine.

    At about 11:30, they attacked Kyiv Oblast with ballistic and cruise ground-based missiles from the Iskander operative-tactical rocket system.

    11 missiles were launched in total: Iskander-M and Iskander-K, from the Northern front.

    All targets were destroyed by the forces and assets of the air defence of Ukraine.

    n the morning of 29 May, the Russian army launched its 16th attack on Kyiv in May, this time during the day. Previously, Russia attacked the Ukrainian capital on two nights in a row, before and after Kyiv Day (28 May – ed.).

    On Monday, 29 May, missile fragments fell in several districts of Kyiv.

    Yurii Ihnat, the spokesperson for the Air Force of Ukraine, reported that this time, the Russians could attack the Ukrainian capital with Iskander missiles, as well as S-300 or S-400 missiles, which also fly on a ballistic trajectory.
    I ask again, how is this unprecidented? Russia has been launching missiles in waves for forever

  15. #31235
    The drones are being dealt with by AA mostly and it's not just the patriot dealing with the missiles- it's IRIS and NASAMS as well. The west will be able to build missiles faster for those than russia will. Not to mention those missiles russia is using cost millions each.

  16. #31236
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The drones are being dealt with by AA mostly and it's not just the patriot dealing with the missiles- it's IRIS and NASAMS as well. The west will be able to build missiles faster for those than russia will. Not to mention those missiles russia is using cost millions each.
    as the Ukrainian subreddit notes, Russia was aiming at crowds of civilians with those missiles. That should be considered a world-class war crime but nothing came of it.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  17. #31237
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The drones are being dealt with by AA mostly and it's not just the patriot dealing with the missiles- it's IRIS and NASAMS as well. The west will be able to build missiles faster for those than russia will. Not to mention those missiles russia is using cost millions each.
    This feels like the Nazis sending V1s and V2s at London later during the war. It was pretty ineffective and motivated by spite more than anything else. Wouldn't be surprised if the same is true here to an extent. If Russia thought they could hit military targets with those missiles, they would. Killing a handful of civilians is a waste and unlike say the US, Russia can't economically afford to just throw away hardware I think.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

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  18. #31238
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    as the Ukrainian subreddit notes, Russia was aiming at crowds of civilians with those missiles. That should be considered a world-class war crime but nothing came of it.
    Sure. It's a war crime. Add it to the pile of War Crimes committed by Russia since the beginining of this "Special Operation"

    What do you expect anyone to do?
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  19. #31239
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Killing a handful of civilians is a waste
    Russia is very much intentionally targeting civilians, as well as coordinating the mass rape, torture, and genocide elsewhere. You may think why, what, purpose?

    The purpose is terror tactics, to demoralize the enemy by illustrating that if they don't surrender, they'll kill babies (which they already have though). Like how drug cartels instill fear in their turf to keep people in line, this is what is ingrained into Russian culture and socieity; a culture that thrives on oppression and violence.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Sure. It's a war crime. Add it to the pile of War Crimes committed by Russia since the beginning of this "Special Operation"

    What do you expect anyone to do?
    Actually penalize Russia, of course. No more flimsy mean words or skirting around the topic because they're a nuclear power and/or have money.

    But like everything Russia has done in this war, we'll just write it off as a war crime and go "that's horrible! shame on you!" but not take action.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  20. #31240
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Actually penalize Russia, of course. No more flimsy mean words or skirting around the topic because they're a nuclear power and/or have money.
    So you want to die in your glorious third world war. We're back to this again.

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