1. #31241
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Actually penalize Russia, of course. No more flimsy mean words or skirting around the topic because they're a nuclear power and/or have money.

    But like everything Russia has done in this war, we'll just write it off as a war crime and go "that's horrible! shame on you!" but not take action.
    Russia is being penalized. What you want is WWIII.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  2. #31242
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    So you want to die in your glorious third world war. We're back to this again.
    No, actually. But you have to understand that the very thing you mentioned is the leverage Russia has so the world lets them do what they want within reason.

    "We're capable of WW3, and no one wants that so you best back off."

    And while we're not necessarily backing off, we're letting them off rather easy is the thing. Which is how Russia annexes territories illegally.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  3. #31243
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    No, actually. But you have to understand that the very thing you mentioned is the leverage Russia has so the world lets them do what they want within reason.

    "We're capable of WW3, and no one wants that so you best back off."

    And while we're not necessarily backing off, we're letting them off rather easy is the thing.
    And other crap you try to convince yourself of.

  4. #31244
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post

    And while we're not necessarily backing off, we're letting them off rather easy is the thing. Which is how Russia annexes territories illegally.

    So, what's your solution, oh great and wise YUPPIE?
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  5. #31245
    Also what should be added is that the west isn't helping Ukraine for moral reasons. International diplomacy doesn't give a fuck about morality. Helping Ukraine being the moral choice just makes it a much much much easier sell.

    Russian actions by and large unfortunately are not unique. They're the norm for nations outside of Europe, North America and a handful of other Western nations in East Asia and Oceanic regions. Even then it's not really about morals, but not wanting the other side to do it to us and the fact precision weapons get the victory in conflict quicker and brings fewer losses to your side.

    The west helping Ukraine is self serving. It deters China from causing problems and it knocks down an international rival in Russia that was seen as a near-peer before their attack on Ukraine.

  6. #31246
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    So, what's your solution, oh great and wise YUPPIE?
    we basically need to isolate Russia economically like North Korea for a non-military solution. Cut off everything, and don't entertain their diplomats or foreign dignitaries, send them all back.

    As it is now, they still get by well enough to not really be inconvenienced by sanctions.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2023-05-30 at 03:18 AM.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  7. #31247
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    As it is now, they still get by well enough to not really be inconvenienced by sanctions.
    Say that to their military and their year long, 3-day operation.

  8. #31248
    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    Say that to their military and their year long, 3-day operation.
    despite all the tough sanction talk, even on the military front well into June, Russia is still launching waves of missiles and drones (supplied from Iran) and even took Bahkmut. Keep in mind months ago optimistic propaganda said Russia would soon run out of manpower and missiles.

    But they still haven't
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  9. #31249
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Russia is very much intentionally targeting civilians, as well as coordinating the mass rape, torture, and genocide elsewhere. You may think why, what, purpose?

    The purpose is terror tactics, to demoralize the enemy by illustrating that if they don't surrender, they'll kill babies (which they already have though). Like how drug cartels instill fear in their turf to keep people in line, this is what is ingrained into Russian culture and socieity; a culture that thrives on oppression and violence.
    Do you think Nazis tried to exterminate all of the Jews to terrorize the rest? No.

    Russia does what it does because it tries to genocide Ukrainians. It just so happens that Russia is so very very bad at everything it does, that even attempted genocide comes across as petty terror tactics.

  10. #31250
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    despite all the tough sanction talk, even on the military front well into June, Russia is still launching waves of missiles and drones (supplied from Iran) and even took Bahkmut. Keep in mind months ago optimistic propaganda said Russia would soon run out of manpower and missiles.

    But they still haven't
    The intent of Propaganda is to moralize your side and/or demoralize your enemy.

    In Russia, the propaganda has been, for the last 15 months, that Ukraine was going to fall any day now

    But it still hasn't
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2023-05-30 at 05:05 AM.
    “The biggest communication problem is we do not listen to understand. We listen to reply,” Stephen Covey.

  11. #31251
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Keep in mind months ago optimistic propaganda said Russia would soon run out of manpower and missiles.

    But they still haven't
    And they have been running out, it's why their "manpower" is essentially untrained teenagers. Believe it or not they still have bodies that can fight/make shit, but their resources are dwindling quickly. It's why they're suggesting the populace work at factories for the war effort or working more, unpaid, hours. They're struggling in a dozen ways and eventually the only tanks they'll have are the ones stationed to defend Putin and nothing more.

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  12. #31252
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    The intent of Propaganda is to moralize your side and/or demoralize your enemy.

    In Russia, the propaganda has been, for the last 15 months, that Ukraine was going to fall any day now

    But it still hasn't
    Also, let's be clear here: Russia is very much out of missiles, and out of manpower. Which is precisely why they're having to rely on shoddily made Iranian imports and resorting to mercenaries and convict soldiers.

    Bakhmut has been massively overhyped, to boot; the win condition for Ukraine was holding it long enough to bleed Russia of manpower and materiel, which they accomplished. What Russia has gained in exchange for all the lives and rubles it poured into it is a practically deserted ruin of no strategic importance, and where Ukraine is able to replenish its materiel via Western aid and is getting even more sophisticated equipment, Russia is having to rely on a choking economy to replace its losses with inferior garbage.

    The fact that the tone of discussions has shifted from "how long can Ukraine hold out" to "how long can Russia hold on to Donbas and Crimea" should be telling enough. Let's not forget this gem from March of last year:

    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Ukraine can last at least two more weeks, if nothing drastic happens, but I expect Kiev to be encircled by that time, but not gone
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #31253
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Any idea what Erdogan's victory in Turkey elections means for Ukraine? People are already fearing he'll be pro Putin.
    Turkey has been a historic rival of Russia and Erdogan has already not flinched from downing Russian jets. Also Ukraine is an enthusiastic buyer of Turkish drones. Erdogan has nothing to gain from messing with Ukraine whereas helping them is good for business.

  14. #31254
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    despite all the tough sanction talk, even on the military front well into June, Russia is still launching waves of missiles and drones (supplied from Iran) and even took Bahkmut. Keep in mind months ago optimistic propaganda said Russia would soon run out of manpower and missiles.

    But they still haven't
    To show you how effective their military is, they did a predawn air raid of Kyiv. Usually you can get a lot of casualties this way. They got 1. Now, 1 is still too many but they attacked when people are asleep. And the person died due to a house fire.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...4c24fc05&ei=15

    Russia launches pre-dawn air raid on Kyiv, killing at least 1; Moscow attacked by drones

    Russia launched a pre-dawn air raid on Ukraine’s capital Tuesday, killing at least one person and sending Kyiv’s residents again scrambling into shelters to escape a relentless wave of daylight and nighttime bombardments, while Moscow authorities said the Russian capital was attacked by drones.

    At least 20 Shahed explosive drones were destroyed by air defense forces in Kyiv’s airspace in Russia’s third attack on the capital in the past 24 hours, according to early information from the Kyiv Military Administration. Overall, Ukraine shot down 29 of 31 drones fired into the country, most in the Kyiv area, the air force later added.

    Before daylight, the buzzing of drones could be heard over the city, followed by loud explosions as they were taken down by air defense systems.

    In Moscow, residents reported hearing explosions and Mayor Sergei Sobyanin later confirmed there had been a drone attack.

    Sobyanin said in a Telegram post that the attack caused “insignificant damage” to several buildings. Two people received medical attention for unspecified injuries but did not need hospitalization, he said.

    Residents of two buildings damaged in the attack were evacuated, Sobyanin said.

    Andrei Vorobyov, governor of the wider Moscow region, later said several drones were “shot down on the approach to Moscow.”

    There was no immediate comment on the attacks from Ukrainian officials.

    It was the second reported an attack on Moscow, after authorities said two drones targeted the Kremlin earlier this month in what was labeled an attempt on President Vladimir Putin's life.

    In the attacks overnight on Kyiv, one person died and three were injured when a high-rise building in the Holosiiv district caught fire. It was not immediately clear what caused the blaze but frequently the falling debris from drones being hit and the interceptor missiles have caused damage on the ground.

    The building’s upper two floors were destroyed, and there may be people under the rubble, the Kyiv Military Administration said. More than 20 people were evacuated.

    Resident Valeriya Oreshko told The Associated Press in the aftermath that even though the immediate threat was over, the attacks had everyone on edge.

    “You are happy that you are alive, but think about what will happen next,” the 39-year-old said.

    Oksana, who only gave her first name, said the whole building shook when it was hit.

    “Go to shelters, because you really do not know where it (the drone) will fly,” she advised others. “We hold on.”

    Elsewhere in the capital, falling debris caused a fire in a private house in the Darnytskyi district and three cars were set alight in the Pechersky district, according to the military administration.

    The series of attacks that began Sunday included a rare daylight attack Monday that left puffs of white smoke in the blue skies.

    On that day, Russian forces fired 11 ballistic and cruise missiles at Kyiv at about 11:30 a.m., according to Ukraine’s chief of staff, Valerii Zaluzhnyi. All of them were shot down, he said.

    Debris from the intercepted missiles fell in Kyiv’s central and northern districts during the morning, landing in the middle of traffic on a city road and also starting a fire on the roof of a building, the Kyiv military administration said. At least one civilian was reported hurt.

    The Russian Defense Ministry said it launched a series of strikes early Monday targeting Ukrainian air bases with precision long-range air-launched missiles. The strikes destroyed command posts, radars, aircraft and ammunition stockpiles, it claimed. It didn’t say anything about hitting cities or other civilian areas.

  15. #31255
    Someone flew a number of drones above Moscow without appearing to attack anything. russia shot them down, causing some minor damage from debris then blamed Ukraine for a 'terrorist attack.'

    If it was Ukraine, it seems a waste of long ranged drones that did nothing. More likely they were of Russian origin I'd say.

  16. #31256
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Someone flew a number of drones above Moscow without appearing to attack anything. russia shot them down, causing some minor damage from debris then blamed Ukraine for a 'terrorist attack.'

    If it was Ukraine, it seems a waste of long ranged drones that did nothing. More likely they were of Russian origin I'd say.
    more likely it was Ukraine

  17. #31257
    Putin loves his false flags,the apartment bombings got him the presidency after all.

  18. #31258
    not really sure why people go 'must be a false flag' like maga people do after every mass shooting. Proper alex jones stuff.

  19. #31259
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    not really sure why people go 'must be a false flag' like maga people do after every mass shooting. Proper alex jones stuff.
    I think it's more that this drone "attack" didn't seem to actually do anything so why would Ukraine waist the resources?

  20. #31260
    Brewmaster Cynical Asshole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    more likely it was Ukraine
    What exactly is the point of flying some expensive drones over something that is very likely going to shoot them down, and not even intend to use them to attack that something?! There are no strategic points in Moscow other than Putin himself.

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