1. #31321
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Breaking News: in light of the recent mystery drone strikes, various officials have stated that Ukraine should be allowed to attack Russia to defend their borders. This statement noticeably comes from the German chancellor. On top of this, Russian Partisans that are stated to be loose affiliates of Ukraine have made another minor incursion into Moscow after a setback. The White House also said that while they do not approve of Ukraine attacking Russia directly, they will not stop them. More drone attacks were reported on oil refineries within Russia as I type this (ongoing)

    FUCK. The war is now more overtly coming for Moscow.
    So would you say Russia is in the "Find out" part of "Fuck around and find out"?

  2. #31322
    Scary shit is going down right now, I think Moscow is inevitably to be directly attacked. The only reservations Germany and the US had were their weapons being used; anything else is "fair game."

    A fighter of the Freedom of Russia Legion with the call sign Caesar said that the Russian partisans, who attacked the Kremlin's forces from the territory of Ukraine, have "thousands" of people willing to join their ranks and will continue to raid the border until their forces are large enough to storm Moscow.

    "We have serious capabilities. We have mortars, armoured vehicles, stinger manpads, portable anti-tank systems and a highly effective drone reconnaissance unit."

    Details: He said the Freedom of Russia Legion is the size of a battalion but plans to expand as an increasing number of Russians realise they can fight Russian dictator Vladimir Putin and prevail.

    A battalion typically consists of 500-1,000 soldiers.

    "We will keep performing these harassment raids to the point we have our own piece of Russian territory, so that real Russian sons and daughters, real patriots, will be able to join us. Once that happens we will quickly grow our force and numbers and it will end with the Kremlin campaign."

    Caesar joked that the weapons for his military formation were purchased from AliExpress and eBay, as well as from Russian military stores.

    He emphasized that all of the members of his Legion were Russian citizens but admitted that they had served in the Ukrainian Armed Forces: "We are not a band of criminals or a private military company like Wagner. We fight within the structure of Ukrainian forces. Our main goal and task is the defence of Ukraine and de-occupation of its territories. After that we will go to free our home".

    He added that the raid on Russian territory was intended to support Ukraine's planned counter-offensive while also acting as a recruitment campaign and encouraging Russians to overthrow Putin before the war comes to them.

    According to him, Russians enter Ukraine through certain neutral border states. "We have a steady flow of incoming recruits and it grows. More and more Russian people understand that this war is criminal and it should be stopped".

    Alexei Baranovsky, a spokesman for the Legion's political wing, told The Times that the Legion is "a politically neutral organisation with no ideological stance. [Its] only task is to overthrow Putin’s regime."

    As he stated, the legion is biding its time: "We aren’t saying we will get to Moscow tomorrow. This will happen when the Ukrainian armed forces liberate Crimea. Putin’s political system will be paralysed by defeat in Crimea. This is when we will need to strike a devastating blow against Moscow. This is what we are preparing for."

    https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/05/31/7404610/

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    So would you say Russia is in the "Find out" part of "Fuck around and find out"?
    no, if Putin's regime is directly threatened the Kremlin will be in the cornered rattlesnake part.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  3. #31323
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Scary shit is going down right now, I think Moscow is inevitably to be directly attacked. The only reservations Germany and the US had were their weapons being used; anything else is "fair game."
    I'd tell you that as usual you're getting worked up over nothing because you've completely misread the situation and have a grossly exaggerated perception of reality because you have a child's understanding of geopolitics, but honestly, why even bother at this point?

  4. #31324
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    no, if Putin's regime is directly threatened the Kremlin will be in the cornered rattlesnake part.
    You've been saying this from day one; first it was "if Ukraine holds out too long the Kremlin will be even more dangerous", then it was "if the West gives Ukraine aid the Kremlin will be even more dangerous", and then "if the West sanctions Russia the Kremlin will be even more dangerous."
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #31325
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    no, if Putin's regime is directly threatened the Kremlin will be in the cornered rattlesnake part.
    Hate to tell you this (not really), but that's not a rattle at the end of that snake but a dried clump of "dirt".

  6. #31326
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Good, maybe the Russians realize starting silly wars ain't so great when the war comes home to them?
    Let Ukraine fire into Moscow......"Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war."

  7. #31327
    The US' full response

    White House: We are against strikes on Russian territory, but it's up to Ukraine to decide

    At a briefing on Wednesday 31 May, John Kirby, Coordinator for Strategic Communications of the White House National Security Council, once again clarified the position of the United States on the conduct of hostilities on Russian territory.

    Source: This was reported by a European Pravda correspondent

    Details: According to Kirby, the United States does not tell Ukraine what targets to hit and not to hit, nor does it indicate how Ukrainian forces should conduct hostilities.

    Quote: "We give them training, equipment, advice and counsel - heck, we even do tabletop exercises with them to help them plan out what they’re going to do," he stressed.

    "But ultimately, President Zelenskyy and his military commanders decide what they’re going to do from a military perspective, and they decide what they’re going to do with the equipment that has been provided to them and that they now own," the White House representative said.

    Kirby added, however, that the United States "has been very clear to the Ukrainians both privately and publicly" that it does not support attacks inside Russia and does not want them to be carried out using American weapons.

    Separately, he said that Washington has received assurances that F-16 fighters will not be used for attacks on the Russian Federation in the future: "And we have gotten these assurances at various levels: not just from President Zelenskyy, but also from other senior military and defence leaders in Ukraine."

    According to various reports, between 25 and 32 drones attacked Moscow on the night of 29-30 May, damaging at least two high-rise residential buildings, and most of the drones were reportedly shot down near the Russian capital.

    Commenting on the drone strikes in Moscow, UK Foreign Secretary James Cleverly said that Ukraine has the legal right to defend itself and can "use force beyond its borders".

    The German government says that international law permits Ukraine to strike at the aggressor’s territory in self-defence.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  8. #31328
    russia lobbed $1.7 BILLION dollars of drones and missiles at Ukraine last month, 90% of which were shot down while the rest did minimal damage.

    https://www.kyivpost.com/post/17726

  9. #31329
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    no, if Putin's regime is directly threatened the Kremlin will be in the cornered rattlesnake part.
    Ohh the part where it gets shot in the face because real life isn't a fable?

  10. #31330
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    When all is said and done though, I'm kinda surprised by the response from the russians. The state propaganda is kinda subdued about it an putin is downplaying it.

    I mean they could have used this to try and generate more support instead they claim it is not a huge deal.

    I guess it's once again a case of: better to appear incompetent in order to avoid further embarrassment?

  11. #31331
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    When all is said and done though, I'm kinda surprised by the response from the russians. The state propaganda is kinda subdued about it an putin is downplaying it.

    I mean they could have used this to try and generate more support instead they claim it is not a huge deal.

    I guess it's once again a case of: better to appear incompetent in order to avoid further embarrassment?
    Do they really want to hype up the fact that their air defense is so incompetent that Ukraine allegedly was able to send drones right to Moscow?
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  12. #31332
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    When all is said and done though, I'm kinda surprised by the response from the russians. The state propaganda is kinda subdued about it an putin is downplaying it.

    I mean they could have used this to try and generate more support instead they claim it is not a huge deal.

    I guess it's once again a case of: better to appear incompetent in order to avoid further embarrassment?
    Like we've said; it's a matter of "you can't make the Ukrainians appear too competent in their ability to wage war and cause harm in Russia or people will begin to fear that the continuation of a war they know is BS is actually making them less safe, and they become more afraid of the Ukrainians than the Kremlin."

    That's been the Russian MO when Ukraine has trounced them in the past. Russia wants the Russian people to fear Russia more than they fear Ukraine.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  13. #31333
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    did minimal damage.
    let's not brush off the deaths of very little kids as "minimal damage."
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  14. #31334
    Scarab Lord MCMLXXXII's Avatar
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    Considering the amount the orcs send, yes this is minimal damage. Sadly the minimal still involves death.

  15. #31335
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    let's not brush off the deaths of very little kids as "minimal damage."
    Never saw that kind of concern for the millions of very little kids you're willing to burn in a nuclear fire of WW3. You know, the thing you actively wish to happen.

    There's a word for faking concern.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  16. #31336
    Russian freedom lads have gone back into Bilhorod again. Lot of panic from the vatniks. Reports of evacuations, burning of documents.

  17. #31337
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    let's not brush off the deaths of very little kids as "minimal damage."
    Considering you want billions of dead kids you don't get to cry about 2 being dead.

  18. #31338
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Russian freedom lads have gone back into Bilhorod again. Lot of panic from the vatniks. Reports of evacuations, burning of documents.
    And so what I said yesterday has come to pass. Citing an article

    On 1 June 2023, the Russian Volunteer Corps and Freedom of Russia Legion announced that they were conducting another operation on the territory of the Russian Federation.

    The fighters recorded a video message and reported they were going toward Shebekino. In particular, a man in a military uniform says in the video that "the neighbourhood of Shebekino will appear very soon."

    https://t.me/russvolcorps/561

    The fighters claim that they plan to liberate all of Russia from Putin's regime.

    The Freedom of Russia Legion also announced a raid on the territory of the Russian Federation: "We, the Freedom of Russia Legion, are now near the border of our homeland, very soon we will advance again on the territory of Russia to bring freedom, peace, and tranquility. Graivoron is only the beginning."

    Locals are asked not to leave buildings and to remain calm.
    ---------

    The consequence of this? The Kremlin has vowed all-out vengeance against Ukraine - the "Armed Forces of Ukraine" as they call the partisians, launching a missile strike on Kyiv that killed 3 people, including yet another child, and injured many more.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2023-06-01 at 05:04 PM.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  19. #31339
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    ---------

    The consequence of this? The Kremlin has vowed all-out vengeance against Ukraine - the "Armed Forces of Ukraine" as they call the partisians, launching a missile strike on Kyiv that killed 3 people, including yet another child, and injured many more.
    i mean they are trying to genocide them you can't really go much higher with esculation, also pravada is garbage

  20. #31340
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You've been saying this from day one; first it was "if Ukraine holds out too long the Kremlin will be even more dangerous", then it was "if the West gives Ukraine aid the Kremlin will be even more dangerous", and then "if the West sanctions Russia the Kremlin will be even more dangerous."
    I have a perfect response for you, recently out of Joseph Robinette Biden Jr's mouth and then some. It's quite a read though but informative.

    Despite the Russian leader’s apocalyptic warnings, the United States has gradually agreed to expand Ukraine’s arsenal with Javelin and Stinger missiles, HIMARS rocket launchers, advanced missile defense systems, drones, helicopters, M1 Abrams tanks and, soon, fourth-generation fighter jets.

    A key reason for brushing aside Putin’s threats, U.S. officials say, is a dynamic that has held since the opening days of the war: Russia’s president has not followed through on promises to punish the West for providing weapons to Ukraine. His bluffing has given U.S. and European leaders some confidence they can continue doing so without severe consequences — but to what extent remains one of the conflict’s most dangerous uncertainties.

    “Russia has devalued its red lines so many times by saying certain things would be unacceptable and then doing nothing when they happen,” said Maxim Samorukov, a Russia expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “The problem is that we don’t know the actual red line. It’s in one person’s head, and it can change from one day to the next.”

    U.S. officials say managing the risk of escalation remains one of the most difficult aspects of the war for Biden and his foreign policy advisers. When deciding what new weapons systems to provide Ukraine, they focus on four key factors, officials said.

    “Do they need it? Can they use it? Do we have it? What is the Russian response going to be?” said a senior State Department official. Like others interviewed for this report, this person spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal deliberations.

    The official said Russia’s reluctance to retaliate has influenced the risk calculus of Secretary of State Antony Blinken, a key Biden confidant who has been an influential voice encouraging the administration and U.S. allies to do more to support Ukraine.

    “You factor that in your decision-making. We did this — there was no escalation or response — can we do the next thing? We’re constantly weighing those factors, and it becomes the hardest judgment call we have to make,” said the official.

    Like Blinken, White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan also has viewed the benefits of supplying more lethal weaponry to Ukraine as outweighing the risks of escalation and has worked extensively with European allies on providing F-16s to Ukraine, said a White House official.

    The administration has juggled these concerns amid a clamor from Ukrainians and hawks in Congress frustrated by the incremental approach and eager for Biden to move faster in sending more advanced equipment to the battlefield amid Russia’s brutal onslaught.

    ------------------

    At the outset of Russia’s invasion in February last year, Putin warned that any country that tried to “impede” his forces “must know that the Russian response will be immediate and lead to consequences you have never seen in history.”

    As the war has dragged on, the warnings from Putin and his subordinates have only become more bombastic, threatening a nuclear holocaust if Russia faced setbacks on the battlefield.

    “If Russia feels its territorial integrity is threatened, we will use all defense methods at our disposal, and this is not a bluff,” Putin said last September.

    Dmitry Medvedev, who serves as deputy chairman of Putin’s powerful security council, was more explicit in January. “The defeat of a nuclear power in a conventional war may trigger a nuclear war,” he said.

    While Putin has challenged the United States — suspending participation in a critical arms control treaty, imprisoning Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich and overseeing a court’s decision to sentence WNBA star Brittney Griner to a nine-year prison term before insisting on a one-for-one trade for a notorious arms merchant — he has not lashed out militarily at Washington or its allies.

    But Western officials are cognizant that that doesn’t mean he never will — particularly as the conflict escalates.

    On Tuesday, drones struck affluent districts of Moscow in what one Russian politician called the worst attack on the capital since World War II. Ukraine has denied involvement in such strikes within the Russian mainland, and the Biden administration said it neither enables nor encourages Ukrainian attacks inside Russia. But Kyiv appears content with Russian civilians experiencing the fears that Ukrainians have lived with for more than a year as their population centers have come under relentless Russian missile and drone attacks.

    A possible explanation for Putin’s reluctance to hit the West is the diminished state of Russia’s military, according to U.S. officials.

    “It would not seem to be in their interest to get into a direct confrontation with NATO right now,” said the senior U.S. official. “They are not well positioned to do so.”

    Gen. Mark A. Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, estimated in a recent interview with Foreign Affairs that Russia has suffered as many as 250,000 dead and wounded since its full-scale invasion began — staggering losses for any conflict.

    Putin has replaced them on the battlefield, Milley said, but with reservists who are “poorly led, not well trained, poorly equipped, not well sustained.”

    As Russian fatalities have mounted, Putin has recalibrated his war aims, from seizing control of Kyiv and decapitating the government of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to controlling and annexing a swath of territory across eastern and southern Ukraine.

    Still, U.S. officials remain wary that Russia, home to the world’s largest nuclear arsenal, could escalate in Ukraine or elsewhere. Last year, amid heightened concerns that Russia was considering deploying a nuclear weapon, senior State Department officials privately warned Moscow about the consequences of doing so — messages that were eventually followed by public warnings.

    As the Biden administration has weighed such risks, Ukrainian leaders, including Zelensky, have expressed their consternation publicly. The perceived dithering and delay, they have claimed, has prolonged the bloodshed by inhibiting Ukraine’s ability to overwhelm the Russian military and force an end to the war.

    Republican hawks in Congress, meanwhile, have said the threat of Russian escalation should not even be a consideration. Rep. Michael McCaul of Texas, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, has called the administration “cowardly” for not sending tactical missile systems known as ATACMS. The weapons, with a range up to about 190 miles, have been high on Ukraine’s wish list for almost the entirety of the war.

    “Every time the administration has delayed sending Ukraine a critical weapon system, from Stingers to HIMARS to Bradleys, over fears of Russian escalation, they have been proven completely and utterly wrong,” he said earlier this year.

    Britain approved the transfer of weapons with a similar range, air-launched cruise missiles known as Storm Shadows, in early May.

    “Certain red lines exist,” said Alexander Gabuev, director of the Carnegie Russia Eurasia Center in Berlin, “… but because we don’t have a way to know for sure what they are, that’s what creates risk.”
    ---------------

    In summary, we do not exactly know when Putin will decide to destroy everything because he hasn't done anything of the like yet. And that's the scariest part, we keep provoking him regardless, almost as if challenging him.
    Last edited by YUPPIE; 2023-06-01 at 06:02 PM.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

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