1. #31641
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Dead? NATO is supposed to be a metaphorical space armada vs goblins armed with sticks here.
    It's a good thing you know that's a metaphor, because oh boy is that a pretty ridiculous thing to say otherwise.

    Are you going to volunteer to server in the NATO military?

  2. #31642
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It's a good thing you know that's a metaphor, because oh boy is that a pretty ridiculous thing to say otherwise.
    Remember this, and how people hyped it up here? That's how I expected/expect a showdown with NATO and Russia to go in conventional (no nukes) warfare.

  3. #31643
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Dead? NATO is supposed to be a metaphorical space armada vs goblins armed with sticks here.
    A 50 years old Kalash kills NATO soldiers well enough. Will the K : D ratio be 1:500 or even 1:5000? Maybe, but Russians don't give a damn, while that mom and dad in NATO member country sure do.

    It is really simple - as long as NATO and the West do not directly do boots on the ground in Ukraine - they are winning and can sip on champagne all day long, while having enough political credit to sell aid to Ukraine in their home countries.

    But if the bodies will start coming home, this whole house of cards will collapse VERY fast. It is a big and a completely unnecessary risk.

    And also... you can't spread war over your morning toast. Nobody wants that shit in Europe and everyone is happy enough to let Ukraine handle it.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2023-06-10 at 10:50 PM.

  4. #31644
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    A 50 years old Kalash kills NATO soldiers well enough. Will the K : D ratio be 1:100 or even 1:1000? Maybe, but Russians don't give a damn, while that mom and dad in NATO member country sure do.

    It is really simple - as long as NATO and the West do not directly do boots on the ground in Ukraine - they are winning and can sip on champagne all day long, while having enough political credit to sell aid to Ukraine in their home countries.

    But if the bodies will start coming home, this whole house of cards will collapse VERY fast. It is a big and a completely unnecessary risk.
    what you just said makes NATO and America seem like opportunistic vultures indifferent to the suffering and death of others as long as they profit.

  5. #31645
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    what you just said makes NATO and America seem like opportunistic vultures indifferent to the suffering and death of others as long as they profit.
    Oh?

    And you thought US does what it does for the happiness of children and puppies in the world?

    How cute.

    --

    Of course, this whole bloody thing is an excellent opportunity for US, Nato and the West to put Russia back into the doghouse on the cheap and show China/Iran/Whatever what messing with West can lead to.

    The instigator here was Putin, but his fuckup is being exploited in fullest by the US, as it should be. And if it only costs some money that can be printed up, then it's almost too perfect.

    I literally don't think that US/NATO/West could hope for any better arrangement. They have an army doing their job for them that does not cost them any political clout in their home countries and they spend 1/10 of what they would spend if there would be a direct conflict on top of that, while not exposing their rear to any significant collateral damage. How nice.

    Sure, there are some clouds in this otherwise happy arrangement, such as Iran. But overall - there is 0 reason to do anything else other than just keep sending $$ and stuff to Ukraine and wait for it to give them Russia on a silver platter back to the state it was in late 80s.

    It only takes some patience, it will happen.
    Last edited by Gaidax; 2023-06-10 at 11:03 PM.

  6. #31646
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    what you just said makes NATO and America seem like opportunistic vultures indifferent to the suffering and death of others as long as they profit.
    You do realise that's basically national interest 101. NATO isn't helping Ukraine because morality. But because national interest. Morality just makes it an easier sell. "Look how moral you are losing some money while Ukraine defends itself against big mean Russia."

    International diplomacy 101. Morals do not exist.

  7. #31647
    Russia is currently gunning down anyone that comes in for rescue efforts in Kakhovka. Also, if they're Russians without passports, they are gunning them down too.

  8. #31648
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Russia is currently gunning down anyone that comes in for rescue efforts in Kakhovka. Also, if they're Russians without passports, they are gunning them down too.
    Then go sign up. Stop crying like a baby on here trying to get us to demand our deaths by forcing our governments to start WW3 for your fanwanking.

  9. #31649
    It seems Russian shovels took out the leopard 2, bradleys etc


    The Russians Just Destroyed Their First Ukrainian Leopard 2 Tank

    David Axe Forbes Staff
    Jun 8, 2023,06:51pm EDT

    The Russians have bagged their first Leopard.

    A Russian artillery strike on a Ukrainian vehicle column during a daytime assault on or around the town of Novopokrovka—35 miles southeast of Zaporizhzhia city in southern Ukraine—apparently knocked out at least one Leopard 2 tank on Wednesday.

    A Russian drone orbited overheard as the shells rained down, its crew presumably helping to direct the strike and assess the resulting damage. The Russians posted the drone’s video on social media, finally achieving what Russian propagandists earlier had tried and failed to do: posit the destruction of a Ukrainian Leopard 2.

    The Leopard 2 and other armored vehicles were traveling in an uncomfortably tight column along an unpaved road outside Novopokrovka or nearby Mala Tokmachka—both occupied by Russian troops—when the artillery struck.

    It’s unclear which brigade the Ukrainian forces belonged to. The only front-line brigades analysts have confirmed as present along the Novopokrovka sector—the 65th Mechanized Brigade and the 46th Air Mobile Brigade—are not confirmed as operators of Ukraine’s German-made Leopard 2s.

    There are just three Ukrainian brigades we can say with some confidence possess Leopard 2s: the newly-formed 33rd Mechanized Brigade and the veteran 1st and 4th Tank Brigades.

    The 4th Tank Brigade recently was spotted in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region, nearly a hundred miles from the Zaporizhzhia front. The 33rd Mechanized Brigade last was observed training around Lviv in western Ukraine. The 1st Tank Brigade meanwhile was a few miles to the east of Novopokrovka.

    The 4th Tank Brigade is busy. That implies the vehicle column the Russians bombarded on Wednesday was from the 1st Tank Brigade or 33rd Mechanized Brigade. It’s possible one or both brigades recently joined Ukraine’s four-day-old counteroffensive.

    We don’t know the outcome of the Ukrainian assault on Novopokrovka or Mala Tokmachka. The 1st Tank Brigade and 33rd Mechanized Brigade between them have dozens of Leopard 2s plus scores of other armored vehicles. Knocking out one Leopard 2—or even several Leopard 2s—isn’t decisive.

    Many of Ukraine’s heaviest brigades have yet to join the attack. The 47th Assault Brigade with its American-made M-2 infantry fighting vehicles reportedly is fighting along the southern front. But the 82nd Air Assault Brigade with its ex-British Challenger 2 tanks and ex-American Stryker IFVs has yet to appear.

    Even if the Russians destroy all 85 of the Leopard 2s Ukraine’s allies currently have pledged to the war effort, there are more tanks on the way—including 31 M-1s from the United States and more than 130 Leopard 1s from a Danish-Dutch-German consortium.

    Expect more Ukrainian equipment losses—in tanks, fighting vehicles and artillery—as the counteroffensive develops. Expect the human toll to mount, as well. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky earlier this month predicted “a large number of [Ukrainian] soldiers will die” as Kyiv’s forces fight to liberate their country from years of Russian occupation.


  10. #31650
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Unfortunate, but bound to happen eventually. As the article notes, however, more are on their way and Ukraine has scores of countries willing and able to help supply it.

    Russia can't really claim such a thing.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #31651
    They were mobility kills, which can be repaired. One Leopard already has been by reports.

    More importantly, as these were western vehicles, the crews survived. Vehicles can be replaced. Trained crews can't.

    And russian propagandists are playing up this one small encounter as they didn't have much more to show. They are being pushed back on the other axis of advances.

  12. #31652
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    They were mobility kills, which can be repaired. One Leopard already has been by reports.

    More importantly, as these were western vehicles, the crews survived. Vehicles can be replaced. Trained crews can't.

    And russian propagandists are playing up this one small encounter as they didn't have much more to show. They are being pushed back on the other axis of advances.
    Witchcraft.

  13. #31653
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Dead? NATO is supposed to be a metaphorical space armada vs goblins armed with sticks here.
    The real world is not the video game you imagine it as.

  14. #31654
    Tbf an actual fullscale combined arms NATO operation against Russia would look like an alien invasion from the Russian POV, but even at 1000:1 casualty ratio there would be so much bitching and moaning from various pussy countries that we won't see it unless Russia goes full retard.

  15. #31655
    Looks like Ukraine has marked their first success of the operation, liberating the village of Blahodatne.

    Not sure what exactly it means however, until we see how much damage they have done to the enemy, to make sure they wont just turn around and come back.

  16. #31656
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    Looks like Ukraine has marked their first success of the operation, liberating the village of Blahodatne.

    Not sure what exactly it means however, until we see how much damage they have done to the enemy, to make sure they wont just turn around and come back.
    How many Blahodatnes are there, as this only throws up a city in Kherson that got liberated months ago...

  17. #31657
    In the kharkiv and kherson offensives, they only announced liberations like this a couple of days after it was secured.

  18. #31658
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    How many Blahodatnes are there, as this only throws up a city in Kherson that got liberated months ago...
    Thats strange.
    Heres the source.

    There sure is alot of fake information floating around out there, but I guess thats what Russia does best, lie and cheat and steal eh?
    Those images of the animals from the flooded dam are just heartbreaking.

  19. #31659
    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    Those images of the animals from the flooded dam are just heartbreaking.
    it's good to know someone else acknowledges this when I mentioned it a few days ago. More than the human disaster, the sight of animal cruelty makes me fly into a borderline homicidal rage.

    I've seen so many dogs, namely, tortured, personally killed, or incidentally killed in this Ukrainian war at the hands of the Russians. And every time I scream in impotent fury at that alone.

    This is why I mainly wish the war ends already.

  20. #31660
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    it's good to know someone else acknowledges this when I mentioned it a few days ago. More than the human disaster, the sight of animal cruelty makes me fly into a borderline homicidal rage.

    I've seen so many dogs, namely, tortured, personally killed, or incidentally killed in this Ukrainian war at the hands of the Russians. And every time I scream in impotent fury at that alone.

    This is why I mainly wish the war ends already.
    Stop watching the news. Get off the internet. Get help for your self assessed drinking problem. Therapy for your rage issues.
    Otherwise all you're doing is pissing and moaning about how things make you feel without doing anything to change how you react to it.
    That's unhealthy.
    You're showing you are a danger to yourself, possibly others.
    Log. Out.
    Go. Touch. Grass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

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