Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Cynical Asshole]

He surrendered to Taliban. What a show of force indeed.

Are you speaking about Biden? Cause last I checked, it was Biden that was in a rush to run away from the Taliban and left behind billions of dollars in equipment as well as American allies, which was only the first of many instances in which he projected weakness and embarrassed America.

[Forogil]

Are speaking about Biden? Cause last I check, it was Biden that was in a rush to run from the Taliban, and left behind billions of dollars in equipment.

Then you should check again, and while doing it leave this discussion.

It was Trump that surrendered to the Taliban, and Biden that executed it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-deal-taliban/

The United States, its allies, and the Coalition will complete withdrawal of all remaining forces from Afghanistan within the remaining nine and a half (9.5) months,” the deal reads.

That was Trump's deal.

[Cynical Asshole]

Then you should check again, and while doing it leave this discussion.

It was Trump that surrendered to the Taliban, and Biden that executed it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-deal-taliban/


That was Trump's deal.

Trump decided to pull America out of the eternal war that's just a drain on American lives and money for no strategic advantage whatsoever. It was Biden that did it in an extremely sloppy and wasteful way.

[Lenonis]

Cause Biden's America is not gonna do shit besides throw money at the situation.

I find it interesting you accuse America of "not doing shit" and then explain how America did in fact, do shit. And are completing ignoring that shit turned Russia's 3 day offensive into a 400+ day long quagmire.

America is too weak to call Putin's bluff by sending NATO troops into Ukraine and inviting Putin to shoot at them, and Putin knows that and so does Xi Jin Ping, and Iran has seen that too.

Ukraine is not a NATO country. Biden is not the president of NATO. That's not how ANY of this works.

Maybe if Trump becomes president he will make a display of force to make the world's enemies respect America again.

No one respected Trump when he was in office. In fact the perception of the US went down under his tenure - except of course for those countries antagonistic to our interests who saw how gullible and narcissistic Trump was.

I do so love conservative land where up is down and somehow you all manage to make it make sense in your heads. It's fascinating.

[Edge-]

Why is it every time Trump folks come into a thread they shit it up?

Anyways, back to the war in Ukraine, Happy Day 474 of the 3-Day Special Operation.

[Forogil]

NATO isn't going to war with Russia for the simple reason that it's getting everything it wants from just supplying Ukraine with more guns then they can carry.

The point of NATO was never to conquer Russia it was to ensure Russia would not be a threat to a combined alliance, and Russia destroying its own military in Ukraine accomplishes that.

And by not having NATO forces directly in Ukraine other countries are more likely to join NATO instead of hoping that NATO will protect them regardless of membership.

That's why Finland has joined NATO and Sweden has applied - which directly destroys one of Putin's goal with his war in Ukraine.

[Lenonis]

Trump decided to pull America out of the eternal war that's just a drain on American lives and money for no strategic advantage whatsoever. It was Biden that did it in an extremely sloppy and wasteful way.

You really should get your news from sources other than Newsmax and brietbart. You might actually learn something about what actually happened.

[Forogil]

Trump decided to pull America out of the eternal war that's just a drain on American lives and money for no strategic advantage whatsoever. It was Biden that did it in an extremely sloppy and wasteful way.

Trump made a deal about Afghanistan without involving the Afghan governments, and with a tight time-table - that Biden kept.

Making deals in countries without the government is something that dictarors like Putin like to do - e.g., for Ukraine; except that the Afghan government was more corrupt. Biden didn't prolong his time-table - in contrast to Putin who dragged his 3-days war into a more than year-long war without an end.

And please leave the what-aboutism on the doorstep.

[Gaidax]

Which is also why the US would have far greater impetus to get involved directly in that.

People on here don't seem to realise just how important things like TSMC is to America's economy when they're suggesting they'd sit that one out and twiddle their thumbs.

Ah a fellow brave keyboard warrior.

It's pretty simple and sane thing - instead of trying to police the whole world and failing, how about fixing the actual problems at home and in general vicinity?

You know how in planes you have a simple instruction: "put on your own oxygen mask first"? About time people would start minding that simple thing.

If you take US and the West - the no.1 shit that should bother them is not whether China will invade Taiwan or not, but why the fuck they don't have the critical production capabilities Taiwan has at home and how the fuck they fix that ASAP. And guess what, you probably don't need planes, ships, tanks and soldiers in body bags for that one, either.

- - - Updated - - -

Then you should check again, and while doing it leave this discussion.

It was Trump that surrendered to the Taliban, and Biden that executed it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-deal-taliban/

I mean, let's be fucking real - they both fucked this up badly. And this kindergarten slap fight of who fucked it up more is amusing.

But then, it's a compounded 2 decades of fuckups that led to this outcome. They both rightfully decided to simply stop the whole sunk cost fallacy cope and do the right thing for the US by getting the fuck out of that sinkhole. That's why Trump did what he did and Biden went through with it.

How about US make a fucking war on its decaying infrastructure, healthcare and social security, instead? You know pour all them $$ into that instead of another bunch of ships/planes/bullshit?

- - - Updated - - -

Trump made a deal about Afghanistan without involving the Afghan governments, and with a tight time-table - that Biden kept.

It's down to waking up and smelling roses. You could give Afghan government 5 times the time to prepare and outcome would be all the same, because their chief interest was lining up their pockets with them sweet dollars first and then governance and state-building faaaaar away second.

[Makabreska]

If you take US and the West - the no.1 shit that should bother them is not whether China will invade Taiwan or not, but why the fuck they don't have the critical production capabilities Taiwan has at home and how the fuck they fix that ASAP. And guess what, you probably don't need planes, ships, tanks and soldiers in body bags for that one, either.

They are trying to fix that production issue by creating new factories and inviting companies to produce in USA. Should they not allow this centralized production to happen in the first place? Sure. But we deal with here and now, and here and now says that Taiwan is still a leading producer in critical electronics. And they have the tech, experience and innovation to stay in the lead for any foreseeable future. It is also in their best interest to stay like this. That is why "ships, tanks and soldiers in body bags" may still play a role here.

[Gaidax]

They are trying to fix that production issue by creating new factories and inviting companies to produce in USA. But we deal with here and now, and here and now says that Taiwan is still a leading producer in critical electronics. And they have the tech, experience and innovation to stay in the lead for any foreseeable future. It is also in their best interest to stay like this. That is why "ships, tanks and soldiers in body bags" may still play a role here.

That is THE problem, that US is only beginning to deal with it here and now, where they should have been doing it a frikkin' decade ago.

And don't get me started about Europe.

It's like code red, they literally need to slash their military budget by 20% and put all that money into tech manufacturing now. Because Taiwan and China won't be there forever as a trade partner for tech.

[YUPPIE]

Cuba sending manpower to fight for Russia (not in ENG).

[Jastall]

That is THE problem, that US is only beginning to deal with it here and now, where they should have been doing it a frikkin' decade ago.

And don't get me started about Europe.

It's like code red, they literally need to slash their military budget by 20% and put all that money into tech manufacturing now. Because Taiwan and China won't be there forever as a trade partner for tech.

All this is true, but it doesn't change the fact that for another generation at least, Taiwan is absolutely critical to American interests- arguably the most strategic location that isn't mainland America itself, due to the double whammy of being the world's tech factory and being perfectly placed to curtail China's power projection in the area. I strongly doubt direct action against Taiwan will be met with sternly worded letters. If the Chinese believed that they'd have started to move on the island, and produce means to invade it, a long time ago, rather than bark at it and move their ships nearby pretending anyone is impressed.


Anyway, the thread is about Ukraine and how it was also gravely underestimated by the entire world, especially the local antagonistic dictatorship who thought it would be an easy grab and that Western support is something they can handwave away.

[ghotihook]

All this is true, but it doesn't change the fact that for another generation at least, Taiwan is absolutely critical to American interests- arguably the most strategic location that isn't mainland America itself, due to the double whammy of being the world's tech factory and being perfectly placed to curtail China's power projection in the area. I strongly doubt direct action against Taiwan will be met with sternly worded letters. If the Chinese believed that they'd have started to move on the island, and produce means to invade it, a long time ago, rather than bark at it and move their ships nearby pretending anyone is impressed.


Anyway, the thread is about Ukraine and how it was also gravely underestimated by the entire world, especially the local antagonistic dictatorship who thought it would be an easy grab and that Western support is something they can handwave away.

This exactly correct. Nobody will touch Taiwan until the US doesn't require it anymore. I fear for them, if/when we are no longer reliant on TSMC.

[Teriz]

Cuba sending manpower to fight for Russia (not in ENG).

Just sending more people to the meat grinder.

I hope Putin is dragged through the streets when this is over.

[YUPPIE]

Just sending more people to the meat grinder.

I hope Putin is dragged through the streets when this is over.

While Cuba has always been a dangerous enemy of the West, this cements Cuba is in fact one of Russia's militaristic benefactors so it's interesting.

So China, Iran, North Korea, Syria, India, and Cuba.

[Edge-]

While Cuba has always been a dangerous enemy of the West

They've been what now?

[Benggaul]

They've been what now?

Guaranteed it's just because they've heard "Cuban Missile Crisis" and are basing everything off of that.

[Jastall]

This exactly correct. Nobody will touch Taiwan until the US doesn't require it anymore. I fear for them, if/when we are no longer reliant on TSMC.

Even when they are, which is many years away IMO, the island is still a great thorn on the side of America's greatest geopolitical rival. Especially now that Russia went ahead and shot itself in the foot for the second time in thirty years, China is USA's only real competition in the field of hegemonies. America has every interest in stopping them from expanding their influence and controlling access to the Sea of China and its surroundings, not to mention that even if the USA isn't dependant on TSMC, they would still want to deny exclusivity to this crucial resource to their main rivals.

Still, as I said, this is veering off-topic.

[Forogil]

Guaranteed it's just because they've heard "Cuban Missile Crisis" and are basing everything off of that.

That seems really silly, considering that Cuba wasn't doing much during that crisis.

The fact that Cuba managed to shrug off the Bay of Pigs would be a better example, and also show that foreign invasions of countries often fail badly - and push countries in the opposite direction compared to what was intended, as Russia has seen in Ukraine (and previously in Afghanistan).