Russian invasion of Ukraine

[zealo]

Wow, I find myself agreeing with you...However I'm assuming the reason they believe that is simple propaganda and brainwashing.

Pretty much.

The Ukrainians on average are not mistreating Russian POWs in a major part because their whole national defence hinges upon staying in the good graces of the western world.

[Kallisto]

Pretty much.

The Ukrainians on average are not mistreating Russian POWs in a major part because their whole national defence hinges upon staying in the good graces of the western world.

I do wonder if the POWs as well get visits from the two Russian groups to see if they want to sign up for their fight against Putin as well. With free choice of if they want to join or not. (Once vetted of course)

[Deus Mortis]

A lot of videos coming out today of Russian POW's should point towards a good sign.

[YUPPIE]

The Russians are raging the Ukrainians committed a war crime today when a HIMAR strike slaughtered 100 Russians troops that were idling in attendance for their commander's speech

[Benggaul]

The Russians are raging the Ukrainians committed a war crime today when a HIMAR strike slaughtered 100 Russians troops that were idling in attendance for their commander's speech

Thanks for taking a break from posting Russian propaganda to prove that they're also just fucking stupid. *thumbs up*

[Gabriel]

The Russians are raging the Ukrainians committed a war crime today when a HIMAR strike slaughtered 100 Russians troops that were idling in attendance for their commander's speech

The Russians have been crying about war crimes every time Ukraine does something. Taking advantage of Russian stupidity isn't a war crime tho.

[zealo]

The Russians are raging the Ukrainians committed a war crime today when a HIMAR strike slaughtered 100 Russians troops that were idling in attendance for their commander's speech

Just because they decided to clump up and be stationary doesn't mean they suddenly ceased to be active combatants, that wasn't a war crime.

[Xyonai]

Just because they decided to clump up and be stationary doesn't mean they suddenly ceased to be active combatants, that wasn't a war crime.

That's what we in the biz call a 'Skill Issue'.

[Cynical Asshole]

The Russians are raging the Ukrainians committed a war crime today when a HIMAR strike slaughtered 100 Russians troops that were idling in attendance for their commander's speech

Looks like a legitimate military target to me.

One SHOULD take advantage of the enemy's stupidity or vulnerabilities.

[gondrin]

The Russians are raging the Ukrainians committed a war crime today when a HIMAR strike slaughtered 100 Russians troops that were idling in attendance for their commander's speech

Fun Fact: If you are an active military personnel and you are at war with someone else, regardless of if you joined voluntarily or were conscripted, you are always considered an active military target. If they did not want to be targets, they should have just surrendered right from the start, even if they were forced to join.

This isn't a war crime anymore then bombing a military base is a war crime.

[Sunseeker]

Fun Fact: If you are an active military personnel and you are at war with someone else, regardless of if you joined voluntarily or were conscripted, you are always considered an active military target. If they did not want to be targets, they should have just surrendered right from the start, even if they were forced to join.

This isn't a war crime anymore then bombing a military base is a war crime.

This is the "Nuking the Naval Review" problem. It is an absolutely legitimate target, but it's got PR issues, no matter how justified (or not) your cause is. Winning is important for Ukraine, yes, but poor choice of targets can turn public sentiment very easily, even if those targets are legitimate. Approval of Russia is low, even internally, even among the military, approval of the Ukraine is currently high pretty much everywhere. Russia doesn't need good PR internally or externally, so there's no need to give them an excuse to get some. Ukraine on the other hand is heavily reliant on outside forces thinking highly of them, and they can't afford to lose that.

I'm not saying it was an illegal target. Just a poorly chosen one.

[Cynical Asshole]

This is the "Nuking the Naval Review" problem. It is an absolutely legitimate target, but it's got PR issues, no matter how justified (or not) your cause is. Winning is important for Ukraine, yes, but poor choice of targets can turn public sentiment very easily, even if those targets are legitimate. Approval of Russia is low, even internally, even among the military, approval of the Ukraine is currently high pretty much everywhere. Russia doesn't need good PR internally or externally, so there's no need to give them an excuse to get some. Ukraine on the other hand is heavily reliant on outside forces thinking highly of them, and they can't afford to lose that.

I'm not saying it was an illegal target. Just a poorly chosen one.

NO ONE in the West is crying over some Russian invaders getting what's coming to them. Like...what are you even talking about?!

Also, this is nothing compared to Russia literally shooting civilians and bombing civilian convoys abandoning towns. FUCK RUSSIAN SOLDIERS! I don't care if the Ukrainians bomb them while picking flowers.

[gondrin]

This is the "Nuking the Naval Review" problem. It is an absolutely legitimate target, but it's got PR issues, no matter how justified (or not) your cause is. Winning is important for Ukraine, yes, but poor choice of targets can turn public sentiment very easily, even if those targets are legitimate. Approval of Russia is low, even internally, even among the military, approval of the Ukraine is currently high pretty much everywhere. Russia doesn't need good PR internally or externally, so there's no need to give them an excuse to get some. Ukraine on the other hand is heavily reliant on outside forces thinking highly of them, and they can't afford to lose that.

I'm not saying it was an illegal target. Just a poorly chosen one.

Not really. The problem is the Russians have painted themselves in the same light as the Nazis in the since they have committed major war crimes. Things such as raping, pillaging, child kidnapping and other stuff. The only thing they are missing is genocide of a people. Nobody is going to view this as a plus for Russia. They will view it as Russia shouldn't have even been there to begin with so if they are in an active battlefield, which it sounds like they were, they were active targets. If they were dumb enough to wait out in the open, that is all on them. Russia is still the aggressor here as they were actively in Ukrainian territory. It would be no different if someone broke into a house, they decided to make themselves a meal and the owner of the home waited until they were busy eating it to shoot them.

They should have done it in a building or some other place that offers concealment. This is why you won't see too many speeches on bases in the middle of hostile territory as you can become under attack at any point in time.

Even Russians are saying this is a dumb move by the Russian military and those that wanted to hold the meeting should be shot.

[Sunseeker]

NO ONE in the West is crying over some Russian invaders getting what's coming to them. Like...what are you even talking about?!

Also, this is nothing compared to Russia literally shooting civilians and bombing civilian convoys abandoning towns. FUCK RUSSIAN SOLDIERS! I don't care if Ukraining bombs them while sitting in an outhouse.

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.

Not really. The problem is the Russians have painted themselves in the same light as the Nazis in the since they have committed major war crimes. Things such as raping, pillaging, child kidnapping and other stuff. The only thing they are missing is genocide of a people. Nobody is going to view this as a plus for Russia. They will view it as Russia shouldn't have even been there to begin with so if they are in an active battlefield, which it sounds like they were, they were active targets. If they were dumb enough to wait out in the open, that is all on them. Russia is still the aggressor here as they were actively in Ukrainian territory.

The Russians have a long way to go to be Nazis, who set the bar pretty fucking high.

It would be no different if someone broke into a house, they decided to make themselves a meal and the owner of the home waited until they were busy eating it to shoot them.

Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

I'm not critiquing the legitimacy. I'm critiquing the optics. Only assholes like Cynical here (hey mods, it's not an insult! It's in their username!) cheer for slaughtering soldiers standing around doing nothing.

[Cynical Asshole]

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.

PR works when the audience has some shred of empathy for the victims. No one gives a shit about Russian soldiers. Many even cheer for this.

[Deus Mortis]

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.

100 targets eliminated with 1 missile sounds like good PR to me. These are people who will no longer be manning their arty or their vehicles blowing up my tax dollars, instead my tax dollars blew them up. It means less Ukraine soldiers dying. Like how is this bad PR?

[gondrin]

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.


The Russians have a long way to go to be Nazis, who set the bar pretty fucking high.


Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

I'm not critiquing the legitimacy. I'm critiquing the optics. Only assholes like Cynical here (hey mods, it's not an insult! It's in their username!) cheer for slaughtering soldiers standing around doing nothing.

Ok, I will only do the comparison for one more example then it is off topic and I won't reply to it. If someone breaks into my house, I can legally shoot to kill regardless of their intent, at least in the state I live in. They do not have to be aggressive as in wanting to harm my person as them breaking into my home automatically makes them an active threat. If I wait around for them to make a meal, I still wouldn't be found guilty of murder. This is far different then a squatter as that is someone who has actively been there for days/months. The only way I would be found guilty of murder is if I set traps to cause harm. Please research Castle Doctrine for homeowners in the US. In the VAST majority of the US, this is the statute that deals with home invaders. Only a small handful actually requires a duty to retreat.

And no, nobody is going to be feeling pity for those soldiers. If they didn't choose to be there because they were conscripted, they should have either surrendered or go to prison if they didn't want to be a target on a hostile battlefield. The Russians are still the aggressor here as they are in illegally occupied territory and a nation has the right(under MULTIPLE UN doctrines and other treaties) to defend their territory with whatever means necessary. This isn't Ukraine deciding to go into Russia to kill a bunch of people, this is them removing people out of their home.

EDIT: Just want to add, the only way I would be convicted of murder or any crime is if I chased them out of my house and then shot them. THAT would be illegal.

[Makabreska]

The Russians have a long way to go to be Nazis, who set the bar pretty fucking high.


Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

I'm not critiquing the legitimacy. I'm critiquing the optics. Only assholes like Cynical here (hey mods, it's not an insult! It's in their username!) cheer for slaughtering soldiers standing around doing nothing.

What a tragedy! 100 ruskies, who just stood there in the active war zone got killed! Holy fuck, someone call Hague!

Are you really this naive that you think it is only okay to kill enemy soldiers who are in active combat? Like, who cares they invaded your country and are literally standing on your soil, Ukrainians should just politely wait for the speech to be done and THEN send the missiles, eh? And you comparing squatting situation to a literal army invading you w/o a provocation, killing civilians, destroying infrastructure and committing war crimes left and right because they do not acknowledge you as an independent nation is just baffling.

And regarding bad PR, you see any Ukraine ally condemning this act?

[Lenonis]

The Russians are raging the Ukrainians committed a war crime today

If there was every a text book usage of the "people in glass houses" saying this is it.

[Gorsameth]

Pretty much.

The Ukrainians on average are not mistreating Russian POWs in a major part because their whole national defence hinges upon staying in the good graces of the western world.

Even outside of outside partners, from a strategic point its beneficial to take prisoners and treat them well and ensure your enemy knows this. An enemy who is willing to surrender is a lot easier to defeat then one who knows he will be tortured and has no reason not to fight to the death.