Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Sunseeker]

Fun Fact: If you are an active military personnel and you are at war with someone else, regardless of if you joined voluntarily or were conscripted, you are always considered an active military target. If they did not want to be targets, they should have just surrendered right from the start, even if they were forced to join.

This isn't a war crime anymore then bombing a military base is a war crime.

This is the "Nuking the Naval Review" problem. It is an absolutely legitimate target, but it's got PR issues, no matter how justified (or not) your cause is. Winning is important for Ukraine, yes, but poor choice of targets can turn public sentiment very easily, even if those targets are legitimate. Approval of Russia is low, even internally, even among the military, approval of the Ukraine is currently high pretty much everywhere. Russia doesn't need good PR internally or externally, so there's no need to give them an excuse to get some. Ukraine on the other hand is heavily reliant on outside forces thinking highly of them, and they can't afford to lose that.

I'm not saying it was an illegal target. Just a poorly chosen one.

[Cynical Asshole]

This is the "Nuking the Naval Review" problem. It is an absolutely legitimate target, but it's got PR issues, no matter how justified (or not) your cause is. Winning is important for Ukraine, yes, but poor choice of targets can turn public sentiment very easily, even if those targets are legitimate. Approval of Russia is low, even internally, even among the military, approval of the Ukraine is currently high pretty much everywhere. Russia doesn't need good PR internally or externally, so there's no need to give them an excuse to get some. Ukraine on the other hand is heavily reliant on outside forces thinking highly of them, and they can't afford to lose that.

I'm not saying it was an illegal target. Just a poorly chosen one.

NO ONE in the West is crying over some Russian invaders getting what's coming to them. Like...what are you even talking about?!

Also, this is nothing compared to Russia literally shooting civilians and bombing civilian convoys abandoning towns. FUCK RUSSIAN SOLDIERS! I don't care if the Ukrainians bomb them while picking flowers.

[gondrin]

This is the "Nuking the Naval Review" problem. It is an absolutely legitimate target, but it's got PR issues, no matter how justified (or not) your cause is. Winning is important for Ukraine, yes, but poor choice of targets can turn public sentiment very easily, even if those targets are legitimate. Approval of Russia is low, even internally, even among the military, approval of the Ukraine is currently high pretty much everywhere. Russia doesn't need good PR internally or externally, so there's no need to give them an excuse to get some. Ukraine on the other hand is heavily reliant on outside forces thinking highly of them, and they can't afford to lose that.

I'm not saying it was an illegal target. Just a poorly chosen one.

Not really. The problem is the Russians have painted themselves in the same light as the Nazis in the since they have committed major war crimes. Things such as raping, pillaging, child kidnapping and other stuff. The only thing they are missing is genocide of a people. Nobody is going to view this as a plus for Russia. They will view it as Russia shouldn't have even been there to begin with so if they are in an active battlefield, which it sounds like they were, they were active targets. If they were dumb enough to wait out in the open, that is all on them. Russia is still the aggressor here as they were actively in Ukrainian territory. It would be no different if someone broke into a house, they decided to make themselves a meal and the owner of the home waited until they were busy eating it to shoot them.

They should have done it in a building or some other place that offers concealment. This is why you won't see too many speeches on bases in the middle of hostile territory as you can become under attack at any point in time.

Even Russians are saying this is a dumb move by the Russian military and those that wanted to hold the meeting should be shot.

[Sunseeker]

NO ONE in the West is crying over some Russian invaders getting what's coming to them. Like...what are you even talking about?!

Also, this is nothing compared to Russia literally shooting civilians and bombing civilian convoys abandoning towns. FUCK RUSSIAN SOLDIERS! I don't care if Ukraining bombs them while sitting in an outhouse.

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.

Not really. The problem is the Russians have painted themselves in the same light as the Nazis in the since they have committed major war crimes. Things such as raping, pillaging, child kidnapping and other stuff. The only thing they are missing is genocide of a people. Nobody is going to view this as a plus for Russia. They will view it as Russia shouldn't have even been there to begin with so if they are in an active battlefield, which it sounds like they were, they were active targets. If they were dumb enough to wait out in the open, that is all on them. Russia is still the aggressor here as they were actively in Ukrainian territory.

The Russians have a long way to go to be Nazis, who set the bar pretty fucking high.

It would be no different if someone broke into a house, they decided to make themselves a meal and the owner of the home waited until they were busy eating it to shoot them.

Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

I'm not critiquing the legitimacy. I'm critiquing the optics. Only assholes like Cynical here (hey mods, it's not an insult! It's in their username!) cheer for slaughtering soldiers standing around doing nothing.

[Cynical Asshole]

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.

PR works when the audience has some shred of empathy for the victims. No one gives a shit about Russian soldiers. Many even cheer for this.

[Deus Mortis]

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.

100 targets eliminated with 1 missile sounds like good PR to me. These are people who will no longer be manning their arty or their vehicles blowing up my tax dollars, instead my tax dollars blew them up. It means less Ukraine soldiers dying. Like how is this bad PR?

[gondrin]

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.


The Russians have a long way to go to be Nazis, who set the bar pretty fucking high.


Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

I'm not critiquing the legitimacy. I'm critiquing the optics. Only assholes like Cynical here (hey mods, it's not an insult! It's in their username!) cheer for slaughtering soldiers standing around doing nothing.

Ok, I will only do the comparison for one more example then it is off topic and I won't reply to it. If someone breaks into my house, I can legally shoot to kill regardless of their intent, at least in the state I live in. They do not have to be aggressive as in wanting to harm my person as them breaking into my home automatically makes them an active threat. If I wait around for them to make a meal, I still wouldn't be found guilty of murder. This is far different then a squatter as that is someone who has actively been there for days/months. The only way I would be found guilty of murder is if I set traps to cause harm. Please research Castle Doctrine for homeowners in the US. In the VAST majority of the US, this is the statute that deals with home invaders. Only a small handful actually requires a duty to retreat.

And no, nobody is going to be feeling pity for those soldiers. If they didn't choose to be there because they were conscripted, they should have either surrendered or go to prison if they didn't want to be a target on a hostile battlefield. The Russians are still the aggressor here as they are in illegally occupied territory and a nation has the right(under MULTIPLE UN doctrines and other treaties) to defend their territory with whatever means necessary. This isn't Ukraine deciding to go into Russia to kill a bunch of people, this is them removing people out of their home.

EDIT: Just want to add, the only way I would be convicted of murder or any crime is if I chased them out of my house and then shot them. THAT would be illegal.

[Makabreska]

The Russians have a long way to go to be Nazis, who set the bar pretty fucking high.


Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

I'm not critiquing the legitimacy. I'm critiquing the optics. Only assholes like Cynical here (hey mods, it's not an insult! It's in their username!) cheer for slaughtering soldiers standing around doing nothing.

What a tragedy! 100 ruskies, who just stood there in the active war zone got killed! Holy fuck, someone call Hague!

Are you really this naive that you think it is only okay to kill enemy soldiers who are in active combat? Like, who cares they invaded your country and are literally standing on your soil, Ukrainians should just politely wait for the speech to be done and THEN send the missiles, eh? And you comparing squatting situation to a literal army invading you w/o a provocation, killing civilians, destroying infrastructure and committing war crimes left and right because they do not acknowledge you as an independent nation is just baffling.

And regarding bad PR, you see any Ukraine ally condemning this act?

[Lenonis]

The Russians are raging the Ukrainians committed a war crime today

If there was every a text book usage of the "people in glass houses" saying this is it.

[Gorsameth]

Pretty much.

The Ukrainians on average are not mistreating Russian POWs in a major part because their whole national defence hinges upon staying in the good graces of the western world.

Even outside of outside partners, from a strategic point its beneficial to take prisoners and treat them well and ensure your enemy knows this. An enemy who is willing to surrender is a lot easier to defeat then one who knows he will be tortured and has no reason not to fight to the death.

[The Stormbringer]

Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

Except that ya know, normally home invaders and squatters don't declare their intention to murder you and take your stuff before they move onto your property. This is nothing like squatters, or even people breaking in to steal your shit. This is people coming, by force, clearly stating what they're wanting to do, and putting your life at risk simply by being there.

EDIT: I just re-read the post you were replying to. I think their analogy here is very inaccurate. This isn't like a typical home invader situation at all, it's far worse.

[zealo]

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.


The Russians have a long way to go to be Nazis, who set the bar pretty fucking high.


Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

I'm not critiquing the legitimacy. I'm critiquing the optics. Only assholes like Cynical here (hey mods, it's not an insult! It's in their username!) cheer for slaughtering soldiers standing around doing nothing.

Anyone that thinks there's an "optics problem" with indirect fire on groups of enemy soldiers loitering around hasn't really paid a whole lot of attention to how this war is being fought in general.

[Jastall]

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.


The Russians have a long way to go to be Nazis, who set the bar pretty fucking high.


Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

I'm not critiquing the legitimacy. I'm critiquing the optics. Only assholes like Cynical here (hey mods, it's not an insult! It's in their username!) cheer for slaughtering soldiers standing around doing nothing.

Here's how everyone will react to this;

Ukrainians: yay more dead russians, have a vodka on me boys.

Russians: Deny it happened, then cope/seethe/mald. Don't invade people if you don't want your soldiers to die.

US: will say, thanks for advertising our area denial solutions!

Entire rest of the world: foreigners getting killed somewhere? Sucks to be them.

[Gabriel]

If you don't understand how PR works you can just say so.


The Russians have a long way to go to be Nazis, who set the bar pretty fucking high.


Except that ya know, that's illegal in all but the most gun-friendly states. If there is no active threat from an invader, the burden on the homeowner on killing them is extremely high. That's why squatters are a problem. You can't just walk into your house and shoot them.

I'm not critiquing the legitimacy. I'm critiquing the optics. Only assholes like Cynical here (hey mods, it's not an insult! It's in their username!) cheer for slaughtering soldiers standing around doing nothing.

This is the Pearl-clutchiest take I've seen all year. The only regrettable thing about this was that they didn't get more Vatniks with single rocket.

Those soldiers were not doing nothing. They were actively participating in an invasion. What's next, don't bomb the invaders at night since they are sleeping? Give me a break.

[Rustedsaint]

Oh how horrible, all those russian commanders needs to have a big meeting in the occupied territories to discuss what went wrong here.

[Poopymonster]

100 targets eliminated with 1 missile sounds like good PR to me. These are people who will no longer be manning their arty or their vehicles blowing up my tax dollars, instead my tax dollars blew them up. It means less Ukraine soldiers dying. Like how is this bad PR?

You wanna talk about PR?
"One missile, 100 of 100 killed, 100% efficiency, all this can be yours for the low low price of...."

[The Stormbringer]

Oh how horrible, all those russian commanders needs to have a big meeting in the occupied territories to discuss what went wrong here.

Yeah, but just make sure it only has the volunteer forces, not the forces that were strong-armed/drafted into it. They're just going to be used as fodder anyway, so the commanders don't need to inform them.

[Corvus]

They had been gathered together by their commanders to give them a speech right before they were to start an assault on Ukrainian positions. How on earth can that be bad PR?

[Edge-]

They had been gathered together by their commanders to give them a speech right before they were to start an assault on Ukrainian positions. How on earth can that be bad PR?

"You just killed too many valid targets at once during an active war, that's just not very sportsmanlike!"

[gondrin]

They had been gathered together by their commanders to give them a speech right before they were to start an assault on Ukrainian positions. How on earth can that be bad PR?

Only in the minds of some Russians and posters is it bad PR. Otherwise, the rest of the world is cheering at the fact that the Russian military would have trouble beating a bunch of pacifists with how inept they are.