Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gabriel]

"Can one fault the non-Russians for being Russophobes? Can one fault the Balts, Poles, Georgians and Ukrainians, in particular, for hating Russia and damning it to hell? Not at all."

I can. That's where it is messed up. You can't just be paranoid or distrustful of everyone of an ethnicity like that.

Being a Russians isn't an ethnicity tho. Russia isn't a monoculture.

[Slirith]

Just stop engaging with him for pete's sake. He either seeks validation for his insanity or is a troll. It doesn't matter how many times you tell and show him he's blatantly wrong, he'll keep coming back with one shit take after the other. Stop feeding him, is all you can do.

They won't listen sadly.

[Gabriel]

They won't listen sadly.

Not engaging trolls has never once worked in the history of anything.

[Kaleredar]

If you ever find out a way let me know. I'd love to keep this thread visible because of the actual news that gets posted by other people but that means putting up with it being inundated by that fucking child who the mods just let spread Russian propaganda and fearmongering bullshit nonstop. So that means putting the sealion on ignore and then just refreshing the home page once in a while until the Russian thread pops up as one of the recently replied-to threads.

I go to my own "quotes" section in my profile, find someone's response to something I posted in this thread, then skip to the most recent page.

[Nymrohd]

I'm one of the last people who'd ever attempt to justify baseless, paranoid '-phobias' of ethnic or religious groups...

However: If you took a moment to read about how much the USSR Gutted, Buttfucked, and Plundered each and every single one of its Satellite nations for the entirety of its tenure then you'd begin to understand why the Baltic states don't have a favorable opinion of the Russian State.

Still fucked if they decide to go about persecuting ethnic Russians in their territories, but the distrust and hate towards Russia sn't all that unfounded when a lot of these atrocities are within living memory.

Imo they should have done population exchanges. I am in no way saying ours was an amazing success, but I am not sure what the alternative could have been. And it is clear that not doing it has not really kept nationalism from being a major force both in Russia and the former soviet states.

[Gabriel]

Imo they should have done population exchanges. I am in no way saying ours was an amazing success, but I am not sure what the alternative could have been. And it is clear that not doing it has not really kept nationalism from being a major force both in Russia and the former soviet states.

I'm sorry, but what? I hope I just misunderstood what you are trying to say, but the entire Russian M.O. has always been to displace the original population of areas they conquer and either kill or ship the original inhabitants to Siberia.

[Nymrohd]

I'm sorry, but what? I hope I just misunderstood what you are trying to say, but the entire Russian M.O. has always been to displace the original population of areas they conquer and either kill or ship the original inhabitants to Siberia.

No I mean that when the former Soviet states left, they should have exchanged people who identified as ethnic Russian (send them into Russia) with people who identified as ethnically of the local state. Greece did it with Turkey after WWI and it was horrible and traumatic for everyone involved but given what happened to the populations we did not exchange, it was the better alternative.
The entire invasion hinged on the population identifying as Russian in the Ukraine and the reason the Baltics are afraid of something similar is that they also host Russian minorities.

[Gabriel]

No I mean that when the former Soviet states left, they should have exchanged people who identified as ethnic Russian (send them into Russia) with people who identified as ethnically of the local state. Greece did it with Turkey after WWI and it was horrible and traumatic for everyone involved but given what happened to the populations we did not exchange, it was the better alternative.
The entire invasion hinged on the population identifying as Russian in the Ukraine and the reason the Baltics are afraid of something similar is that they also host Russian minorities.

The problem with that is that it is very difficult to find anyone identifying as citizens of the local states because Russia genocides them either directly by killing them or by shipping them to Siberia and spreading them out so that they could not form communities based on their original culture.

[Nymrohd]

The problem with that is that it is very difficult to find anyone identifying as citizens of the local states because Russia genocides them either directly by killing them or by shipping them to Siberia and spreading them out so that they could not form communities based on their original culture.

You'd just have given Russia the chance to get rid of those people to a neighbouring country. It is more cost effective for them.
Ofc you can argue that the cruelty is the point. If they cared about being effective, the USSR's economy might not have collapsed.

[Gabriel]

You'd just have given Russia the chance to get rid of those people to a neighbouring country. It is more cost effective for them.
Ofc you can argue that the cruelty is the point. If they cared about being effective, the USSR's economy might not have collapsed.

A dead local citizen is a citizen that can't come back to you in the future to claim back their home.

[Nymrohd]

A dead local citizen is a citizen that can't come back to you in the future to claim back their home.

Yeah, I don't exactly expect to claim back the homes of any of my grandparents, all four of which moved to Greece in the exchange. Pretty sure Lausanne covered that.

[Iphie]

Being a Russians isn't an ethnicity tho. Russia isn't a monoculture.

Being a russian is definitely an ethnicity, being a russian citizen is a whole other thing.

If I would get my Finnish citizenship (working on it! damn Persut) I would be ethnically Dutch with a Finnish citizenship. (Let's not delf too deeply into my *actual* ethnicity because that's just a hopeless disaster.)

[Gabriel]

Being a russian is definitely an ethnicity, being a russian citizen is a whole other thing.

If I would get my Finnish citizenship (working on it! damn Persut) I would be ethnically Dutch with a Finnish citizenship. (Let's not delf too deeply into my *actual* ethnicity because that's just a hopeless disaster.)

Dutch or Finnish ethnicity is a lot narrower description than Russian ethnicity (yeah there are different ethnic groups within Dutch and Finnish "ethnicities"). Russia on the other hand, is made up of close to 200 ethnic groups, and the ethnic "Russians" (Slavic European Russians) alone consist of several culturally distinct groups.

Btw I wish you luck with your citizenship project!

[Iphie]

Btw I wish you luck with your citizenship project!

Thanks.

Onneksi osan jo suomea, koska olen asunut Suomessa yli 12 vuotta. (En ole tyhmä ulkomaalainen joka asuu paikalla ilman oppia kieli)

But I still make mistakes and some things are just downright terrifying. It's the thought that counts and the effort. (I'm sure trying to do it in Swedish would be easier but alas, I am a stubborn fool.)

[Kallisto]

Yeah, I don't exactly expect to claim back the homes of any of my grandparents, all four of which moved to Greece in the exchange. Pretty sure Lausanne covered that.

Yeah, it pretty much did for any home still standing. Some places like my great grandfather's village was burned to the ground by the advancing Turks during that war.

[Gabriel]

Thanks.

Onneksi osan jo suomea, koska olen asunut Suomessa yli 12 vuotta. (En ole tyhmä ulkomaalainen joka asuu paikalla ilman oppia kieli)

But I still make mistakes and some things are just downright terrifying. It's the thought that counts and the effort. (I'm sure trying to do it in Swedish would be easier but alas, I am a stubborn fool.)

You would unironically be more ostracized if you tried to become a Swedish speaking Finnish citizen than if you didn't learn Finnish or Swedish at all and just spoke English everywhere.


Goddamn bättre folk... *shakes fist*

[Iphie]

You would unironically be more ostracized if you tried to become a Swedish speaking Finnish citizen than if you didn't learn Finnish or Swedish at all and just spoke English everywhere.


Goddamn bättre folk... *shakes fist*

Hey! I know the important sentences: papa betaler and Jag prater inte svenska.

But yeah I have to learn Swedish or I can't graduate university. Goddamn pakkoruotsi..

[Gabriel]

Hey! I know the important sentences: papa betaler and Jag prater inte svenska.

But yeah I have to learn Swedish or I can't graduate university. Goddamn pakkoruotsi..

Ahh, well, good luck with that. I struggled with my compulsory Swedish course in uni too.

[YUPPIE]

Joe Biden claims the probability Putin will use nuclear weapons is real and is frustrated that no one seems to take him seriously.

"When I was out here about two years ago saying I worried about the Colorado river drying up, everybody looked at me like I was crazy, Biden told a group of donors in California on Monday. They looked at me like that when I said I worry about Putin using tactical nuclear weapons. It's real, Biden said."
---------------

President Joe Biden said on Monday the threat of Russian President Vladimir Putin using tactical nuclear weapons is "real", days after denouncing Russia's deployment of such weapons in Belarus.

On Saturday, Biden called Putin's announcement that Russia had deployed its first tactical nuclear weapons to Belarus "absolutely irresponsible".

The deployment is Russia's first move of such warheads - shorter-range, less powerful nuclear weapons that could be used on the battlefield - outside Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union.

The United States has said it has no intention of altering its stance on strategic nuclear weapons in response to the deployment but has not seen any signs yet that Russia is preparing to use a nuclear weapon.

The Russian deployment is being watched closely by the United States and its allies as well as by China.

[Shadowferal]

If Putin uses nukes then he not only acknowledges he lost Ukraine, but that he's willing to lose Russia as well.