Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Elegiac]

I know some 70-something year old dude that sits outside the grocery store most of the day, talking to his other elderly friend who live close by. Guy is a stone-cold Trump supporter but he would give the shirt off his back to help anyone.

I don’t look at him as some evil person. Dude is just misinformed and living his life. He’s going to vote how he wants and me calling be some pos sure isn’t going to change that.

I don’t even ignore him. I’m pleasant, wish him well and go about my day.

Good for you. You have very obviously never been in a position where you have been made to argue your basic humanity, or the person opposite you poses a political threat to your welfare and/or very existence.

Civility and compassion being (somewhat) decent techniques for persuading (some) people does not imply that the moral improvement of reactionaries is more important than protecting the people they target, nor that persuading those people is necessarily the best way to achieve social reform.

Nor, might I add, that engaging someone with civility imply that you have to find their position sympathetic or understandable. No amount of folksy anecdotes you throw out changes that.

[zealo]

Russia's invasion of Ukraine did also cause a price-shock in many parts of the world - especially for food and energy prices.

I'm not talking about the cost of supporting Ukraine, but both sanctions of Russia (and Belarus) and the fact that Ukraine (and Russia in case someone is stupid enough to support them) cannot produce as much as before.

That is more visible in Europe - but I'm pretty sure it also impacted the US; https://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/blog...362af3.en.html

It was, but America have been insulated from the worst of it all the same.

The US is one of the largest producers of energy on the planet, they’re very capable of seeing their own domestic needs met.

[Belize]

Some European countries decoupling from Russian energy vassalage certainly drove up a lot of prices in a lot of Europe because of the shift in energy and few months' of struggle in it.

Europe sure, but the U.S. no. If anything we increased exports to Europe making it a boon for us.

[Jastall]

To add onto what you said, most of the equipment we have sent has already been bought and paid for decades ago. The cost to ship the stuff is most likely cheaper than keeping it running and then getting rid of it when it meets the end of life date. The benefits to America in the long term are far too great for people to pass up. You have your #2 rival having their vast stocks depleted with very few ways to even rebuild it. Ukraine will become an ally and most likely a Nato member in a decade or so. It adds a friendly buffer country between China/Russia to the EU, that will have missile defense systems. Numerous of China's plans for the country have been ruined and I imagine now Western countries will eventually have their hands all over Ukraine's vast supply of natural resources.

And on top of all that instead of rotting in warehouses somewhere all those munitions, transports and such serve as highly effective advertisement for US and NATO gear for the world to see.

America is the single biggest winner of this war by a significant margin. All they have to do to reap the rewards and kneecap their second-biggest rival on the world stage is ship some surplus overseas. That's a bargain if I ever saw one, and has literally no impact on the rent of the average American compared to, say, domestic financial or social policies.

But that topic is complicated, whereas "the money should stay in the US!!" is simple.

[Wilian]

Europe sure, but the U.S. no. If anything we increased exports to Europe making it a boon for us.

Even if some US energy companies benefited from the shift away from Russia, Europe's gas and oil purchace spree drove prices up globally due to sheer volume of it.

[gondrin]

"Can one fault the non-Russians for being Russophobes? Can one fault the Balts, Poles, Georgians and Ukrainians, in particular, for hating Russia and damning it to hell? Not at all."

I can. That's where it is messed up. You can't just be paranoid or distrustful of everyone of an ethnicity like that.

Prove Russian is an ethnicity.

[Forogil]

It was, but America have been insulated from the worst of it all the same.

Yes, the impact is smaller but it is not non-existant.

The US is one of the largest producers of energy on the planet, they’re very capable of seeing their own domestic needs met without importing anything.

Ask any capitalist what happens with with domestic prices if you can get higher export prices.

[Elder Millennial]

Prove Russian is an ethnicity.

Russian is an ethnicity. There is such a thing as Russian people, culture etc.

The point being missed here, and the point he missed in the article was that Russophobia is actually not an illogical or unwarranted fear of or hatred of "Russia".

Russian culture/civilization as defined by the Russians themselves includes elements like glorification of violence, imperialism, a sense of ethnic and national supremacy etc.

The article briefly explained both the roots of this problem, it's current manifestation and the past and present impact this had on people living around Russians.

The article asks for westerns to recognize the "Ruski Miir" for what it is, to stop normalizing it or act like it could somehow be appeased with whatever concessions, while also asking Russians themselves to reject the current incarnation of their culture and government and to move past to something better.

[Dontrike]

Everything, where I am, is double the price, to include rent and home prices. $200 groceries every 2 weeks now cost our family $400. Our rent for a small 3-bedroom town house is $2600 (in the country).

You're not going to convince people that COVID and Ukraine didn't largely contribute to that.

"I'm a democrat" They'll scream for the 80th time as they repeat GQP talking points for the 800th time. Neither of those things are the root cause of inflation and the fact you're bringing it up here is either to distract from shit you don't like or to muddy the waters. It's clear that greedy corporations are the main cause of your groceries doubling and the fact you don't know that is worrying.

[Deus Mortis]

And on top of all that instead of rotting in warehouses somewhere all those munitions, transports and such serve as highly effective advertisement for US and NATO gear for the world to see.

America is the single biggest winner of this war by a significant margin. All they have to do to reap the rewards and kneecap their second-biggest rival on the world stage is ship some surplus overseas. That's a bargain if I ever saw one, and has literally no impact on the rent of the average American compared to, say, domestic financial or social policies.

But that topic is complicated, whereas "the money should stay in the US!!" is simple.

And sadly the simple one is an easy to use sound bite and the uneducated will lap it up.

[Dontrike]

I live around a lot of Republicans. Some like Trump, some don't, but the thing they have most in common, that I've seen, is their desire to just have people mind their own business. And I'll tell you this, the vast majority that I meet are just humble people trying to provide for their family.

One, your personal experiences don't disprove the fact that Republicans like Trump at least around 85%+. Two, no they are not just "mind your own business" as we've seen them attacking gays, trans, women, children, and minorities. Three, what the fuck does this have to do with the war again?

People who are shut up on social media, go to the polls with a big ass grudge, just remember that.

Really? Someone not able to use Twitter is what makes them vote for racists and fascists? Fucking really?

[Elder Millennial]

Really? Someone not able to use Twitter is what makes them vote for racists and fascists? Fucking really?

"I want to turn America into a fascist dictatorship and see the world burn, because I've been banned on a forum for calling Obama the N word."

Republican voters circa 2020s.

[YUPPIE]

I have almost no doubt in my mind a part of Putin's plan to turn the war in his favor is Trump being re-elected, of whom will remove all support for Ukraine. Trump's re-election will also incite civil war, protests, and unrest in America.

That's why Zelenksy is keeping track of a timetable for US elections. Ukraine should ideally win before 2024. That's why I wish the war ends soon.

[Azadina]

I have almost no doubt in my mind a part of Putin's plan to turn the war in his favor is Trump being re-elected, of whom will remove all support for Ukraine. Trump's re-election will also incite civil war, protests, and unrest in America.

That's why Zelenksy is keeping track of a timetable for US elections. Ukraine should ideally win before 2024. That's why I wish the war ends soon.

Is that the civil war Kokolumps keeps dreaming of? The one where RuZZia and China help MAGAs exterminate all "libcucks" and other untermenschen?

[YUPPIE]

Wagner is recruiting video gamers, expressing gamers have a supposed passion for violence that would translate to easily to real-life.

[Cynical Asshole]

Wagner is recruiting video gamers, expressing gamers have a supposed passion for violence that would translate to easily to real-life.

Video gamers are also more connected to social media and world events, and are a lot less likely to support Putler.

Rubes and inmates are easy to manipulate because they don't know jackshit, but people who follow the Internet and know what's going on in the world, are much harder to brainwash with propaganda. Not saying there won't be anyone falling for it, hell that Shalcker guy would probably jump right in, but most gamers won't.

[Gabriel]

Ukraine spy chief accuses Russia of 'mining' cooling pond at Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant

They already blew up the dam, so I have no problem believing they mined the nuclear power plant as well.

[Voidism]

I read Winter Blossom as this: you can't ignore the "ignorant" masses or call them name. Doing so will actually make it worse. You have to realize that they are part of society and DO have a democratic voice. The only "solution" would be to remove democracy to let the "right" opinions through only.

That does not mean you approve of such ignorance. Just that maybe instead of worsening the divide and being hostile and thinking/putting people in 2 camps only, try to act like each person is an individual. There are people on the American right who 100 % support Ukraine. There are the opposite too.

If you treat someone like shit, they will NOT change their minds. Quite the opposite. So if you indeed actually want support for Ukraine to increase, I'd suggest not pushing them harder towards the other side. And before you say "well, that's their problem if they 'go to the other side', it's childish!" WELL YES, IT IS. BUT THEY ARE STILL A VOICE IN YOUR DEMOCRACY. They are "childish" AND they have a vote.

Instead of "omg I can't even... ah well, GOPTARDS!!!!" you can try to see why they got there. They are not evil. They just lack trust in institutions. Sometimes for very good reason (maybe their loved one was killed as a result of institutional failure, they lost their jobs because of some new law or something... I dunno). AGAIN, I'm not saying I agree or like those opinions.

[zealo]

Wagner is recruiting video gamers, expressing gamers have a supposed passion for violence that would translate to easily to real-life.

No, Yuppie.

What they actually want there is to deliberately recruit people who have no idea what they’re getting themselves into, and by the time it dawns on them it’ll be too late for regret for them.

[alach]

I read Winter Blossom as this: you can't ignore the "ignorant" masses or call them name. Doing so will actually make it worse. You have to realize that they are part of society and DO have a democratic voice. The only "solution" would be to remove democracy to let the "right" opinions through only.

That does not mean you approve of such ignorance. Just that maybe instead of worsening the divide and being hostile and thinking/putting people in 2 camps only, try to act like each person is an individual. There are people on the American right who 100 % support Ukraine. There are the opposite too.

If you treat someone like shit, they will NOT change their minds. Quite the opposite. So if you indeed actually want support for Ukraine to increase, I'd suggest not pushing them harder towards the other side. And before you say "well, that's their problem if they 'go to the other side', it's childish!" WELL YES, IT IS. BUT THEY ARE STILL A VOICE IN YOUR DEMOCRACY. They are "childish" AND they have a vote.

Instead of "omg I can't even... ah well, GOPTARDS!!!!" you can try to see why they got there. They are not evil. They just lack trust in institutions. Sometimes for very good reason (maybe their loved one was killed as a result of institutional failure, they lost their jobs because of some new law or something... I dunno). AGAIN, I'm not saying I agree or like those opinions.

Well said.

I'd also like to point out to those folks that the reason their groceries are high is becaue of Putin, not Ukraine. Its not a secret markets and business hate uncertainity and what Russia has done has flipped the global order and trade upside down, just as we were coming out of a pandemic. Of course invading another neighbouring country is always wrong, but he really took one of the worst times to do it.
I'd also politely remind them that inflation is global, and the blame for the cause of it can't be put on just one person or reason. How each country is dealing with it is another matter.