1. #32281
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    Kokolums was right all along? Just has the wrong country.
    This will inevitably be followed by... I guess the US right-wing sending over their "forces" to help the Russian government fight off Wagner... or something?

    I'm sure that's going to happen any day now.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #32282
    The one day I decide to check up on the war and this happens. What a time to be alive.

  3. #32283
    Anyone want to take a stab at what the explanation for Prigs betrayal will be?

    I'm hoping for a DeSantis style message. "Ukrainian satanists have infected REDACTED with the NATO woke mind virus and trans'D them."

    I'll bet whatever ends up getting put out will be even wilder than that though.

  4. #32284
    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    Anyone want to take a stab at what the explanation for Prigs betrayal will be?

    I'm hoping for a DeSantis style message. "Ukrainian satanists have infected REDACTED with the NATO woke mind virus and trans'D them."

    I'll bet whatever ends up getting put out will be even wilder than that though.
    Prig's message and reasoning was quite clear: "Russian MoD doesn't care about Russian soldiers' lives at all. Join me and we will end the slaughter of our fellow Russians".

  5. #32285
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    So rumours Luka fled to Turkey, there was a Belarussian government plane that flew over russia and then detoured to Turkey. If Belarus "falls" then this shitshow is complete.

  6. #32286
    So, for ages, western analysts and biographers talked up Putin, promoting him as a tactical genius, a devious strategist and whatnot.
    Now, a year later, on day 400 something of his 10 day special military operation, it looks alot like another example of the emperor without any clothes.
    How many months were they talking about how he is using wagnar to play against his military generals, moving pieces on the chessboard, a crafty politician nimbly manipulating all the different factions.
    Well, that little speech just showed the world he hasn't been, and all these failures are not a part of some grand military scheme. He just done gone and fucked up good.

    Hope some people that believe Trump is playing 5d chess are paying attention.

  7. #32287
    Wagner reportedly has taken over Voronezh with no interference either.

  8. #32288
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    So, for ages, western analysts and biographers talked up Putin, promoting him as a tactical genius, a devious strategist and whatnot.
    Now, a year later, on day 400 something of his 10 day special military operation, it looks alot like another example of the emperor without any clothes.
    How many months were they talking about how he is using wagnar to play against his military generals, moving pieces on the chessboard, a crafty politician nimbly manipulating all the different factions.
    Well, that little speech just showed the world he hasn't been, and all these failures are not a part of some grand military scheme. He just done gone and fucked up good.

    Hope some people that believe Trump is playing 5d chess are paying attention.
    He should have stopped at his peak with Crimea and Syria.

    But the clowns around him sold him a Hollywood story and his hubris did the rest.

  9. #32289
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Prig's message and reasoning was quite clear: "Russian MoD doesn't care about Russian soldiers' lives at all. Join me and we will end the slaughter of our fellow Russians".
    Sorry I meant the spin from the Kremlin when this is all over. Not what REDACTED is claiming. Looking at REDACTED's statement he was trying to offer Putin a chance to back Wagner and maybe even an off ramp to the war. Looks like Putin wasn't interested though.

    It was fairly obvious REDACTED has been on borrowed time since the MoD was allowed to try and absorb these PMC's via that new contract so it will be fun to learn whether Shoigu did genuinely try and crush Wagner for non compliance and REDACTED has been forced to march on Moscow or whether Wagner has false flagged itself for a reason to openly declare war on the Russian MoD.

  10. #32290
    So, I have to ask. Was this something Ukrainian leadership hoped for as a result of Bakhmut? They basically locked Wagner into a meat grinder/ pressure cooker combo for months, causing already existing fractures between Prig and the MoD to grow until finally this.

    Was this something planned, or did the operation in Bakhmut just succeed better than the Ukrainians could have possibly imagined?

  11. #32291
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluespiderman57 View Post
    So, I have to ask. Was this something Ukrainian leadership hoped for as a result of Bakhmut? They basically locked Wagner into a meat grinder/ pressure cooker combo for months, causing already existing fractures between Prig and the MoD to grow until finally this.

    Was this something planned, or did the operation in Bakhmut just succeed better than the Ukrainians could have possibly imagined?
    Probably the latter.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  12. #32292
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluespiderman57 View Post
    So, I have to ask. Was this something Ukrainian leadership hoped for as a result of Bakhmut? They basically locked Wagner into a meat grinder/ pressure cooker combo for months, causing already existing fractures between Prig and the MoD to grow until finally this.

    Was this something planned, or did the operation in Bakhmut just succeed better than the Ukrainians could have possibly imagined?
    I don't think you can plan for your opponents to engage in an actual civil war while still also fighting you.

    There were so many off ramps along the way that could have prevented this.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  13. #32293
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I don't think you can plan for your opponents to engage in an actual civil war while still also fighting you.

    There were so many off ramps along the way that could have prevented this.
    Fair enough. That sounds pretty reasonable.

  14. #32294
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluespiderman57 View Post
    So, I have to ask. Was this something Ukrainian leadership hoped for as a result of Bakhmut? They basically locked Wagner into a meat grinder/ pressure cooker combo for months, causing already existing fractures between Prig and the MoD to grow until finally this.

    Was this something planned, or did the operation in Bakhmut just succeed better than the Ukrainians could have possibly imagined?
    Doubtful. I think Putin had privately backed Shoigu and Wagner was about to be folded into the Russian military proper.

    REDACTED put up a weird video a few days ago where they tried to submit the paperwork to bring Wagner into the MoD but the lady running the office refuses to take it and then shuts it.

    REDACTED is claiming that yesterday the MoD attacked Wagner so it could be that Shoigu had been trying to isolate Wagner, crush it and absorb what was left only it's all gone wrong because....well this is the Russian military trying to do something outside of warcriming civilians so of course they fuck it up.

    Maybe we will find out in due time or maybe not but I wouldn't chalk this up to the Ukrainians. Hopefully it might open up some of the front for the swift gains it needs to make to appease the West and then drop into a less costly defensive operation until it gets the air power it needs to finally push the orcs out of Ukraine.

  15. #32295
    Scarab Lord Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluespiderman57 View Post
    Fair enough. That sounds pretty reasonable.
    I doubt Ukraine is upset by the developments though since Wagner and the Russian army killing each other are troops not fighting in Ukraine alongside Russian supply lines being disrupted.
    "If you are ever asking yourself 'Is Trump lying or is he stupid?', the answer is most likely C: All of the Above" - Seth Meyers

  16. #32296
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    I don't think you can plan for your opponents to engage in an actual civil war while still also fighting you.
    I agree that it seems unlikely to be the plan in this case; and we still don't know what will be the outcome of this fight.

    However, planning to topple the government of the one you are fighting, and that leading to civil war, has been done before - including in Russia.
    But it's a high risk strategy.

  17. #32297
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    I doubt Ukraine is upset by the developments though since Wagner and the Russian army killing each other are troops not fighting in Ukraine alongside Russian supply lines being disrupted.
    Well, we'll see how much of a fight Russian forces put up against Wagner. So far there hasn't been any reported resistance. Russian forces are spread thin as it is and one can assume that anyone capable of repelling their advance is already pinned down in Ukraine.

    Hopefully the regime change includes a cessation of hostilities and not just a more competent military dictatorship.

  18. #32298
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Well, we'll see how much of a fight Russian forces put up against Wagner. So far there hasn't been any reported resistance. Russian forces are spread thin as it is and one can assume that anyone capable of repelling their advance is already pinned down in Ukraine.

    Hopefully the regime change includes a cessation of hostilities and not just a more competent military dictatorship.
    I would assume Prig, if he were to win, would grab the chance to shift all the blame to Putin and just pull out of Ukraine so he can focus on consolidating his power.
    The world might call for compensation/reparation but no one is going to chase the Russian army into Russia itself to get it.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  19. #32299
    The only resistance so far seems to have been from the air force and they have lost at least 3 helicopters and now reportedly a plane as well.

  20. #32300
    Funny how all the Russian supporting people who craved a "multi-polar world", might get a multi-polar Russia instead. Also, I wonder if all the rightwingers who blamed Joe Biden for the war will now call him a 5D chess player given that Russia is collapsing?

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