1. #32581
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    But can he afford them?
    He doesn't need too. The way Wagner is set up makes them self sufficient, they own the mines/resources they exploit. The idea behind this was that very little financial ties would lead back to the Russian government for deniability. Wagner could exploit the resources and use the money they made for expanding their operations and the only thing Putin had too do was send Prigozhin a message.

    Most of the profits ended up in Russia ofc but to hide it properly it takes time.

    Personally I never really got this approach. it invites corruption because the only one with proper oversight is Wagner. And everybody in the world knows what Wagner is/was, so the deniability thing only works in third-world countries with weak governments.
    Last edited by P for Pancetta; 2023-06-26 at 10:29 PM.

  2. #32582
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Trying to summarize the Wagner situation. It's as if Blackwater decided to protest in the middle of the Iraq war aftermath that the Joint Chiefs were being too soft - > not giving jobs they wanted. So they decide to march on DC until Bush has a meeting with them. Bush says get your asses back to work or I'm arresting the lot of you, they leave and Canada offers to house them until things calm down/Bush decides what he wants to do with them. Maybe the soft exile and threat is enough, maybe someone needs to be made an example of.

    Or course it's not a 1:1 comparison so please...just outlining a scenario that's more relatable.

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  3. #32583
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Trying to summarize the Wagner situation. It's as if Blackwater decided to protest in the middle of the Iraq war aftermath that the Joint Chiefs were being too soft - > not giving jobs they wanted. So they decide to march on DC until Bush has a meeting with them. Bush says get your asses back to work or I'm arresting the lot of you, they leave and Canada offers to house them until things calm down/Bush decides what he wants to do with them. Maybe the soft exile and threat is enough, maybe someone needs to be made an example of.

    Or course it's not a 1:1 comparison so please...just outlining a scenario that's more relatable.
    You forgot to add that in your scenario Blackwater would be run by Guy Fieri wearing a Count Orlock mask.

  4. #32584
    Prig says he is in Minsk, in a room with 'no windows.' Still trolling I see.

  5. #32585
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Prig says he is in Minsk, in a room with 'no windows.' Still trolling I see.
    "Prig died after he jumped through the wall kool-aid man style, not realizing in his hubris that soft person bodies are not able to do such a thing. This was totally suicide, btw."

  6. #32586
    Windowless room is just inviting a cup of polonium coffee with breakfast. He's done for either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  7. #32587
    And now the FSB has announced all charges of mutiny have been dropped. Again.

  8. #32588
    Quote Originally Posted by ShakesForPRide View Post
    Really boring.

    So many of his personal red lines got crossed. And no one was nuked over it. /s

    So much for all of that skeery text.
    I am channeling YUUPIE's spirit: omg nuke, we will be nuked killed haha, I love it... I meant I don't want it to happen QQ but it will *>gasm<* now I need to go drink some more X_X

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    - Pinguppie

  9. #32589
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    How come every country does better fake coups than Jan 6. Our shit was embarrassing.

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  10. #32590
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    How come every country does better fake coups than Jan 6. Our shit was embarrassing.
    We didn't send our best, we didn't send our brightest...some of them I assume are...actually nah, none of them were good people.

  11. #32591
    So let's summarize this.

    Step 1. Launch a 3 day invasion of Ukraine. Make NATO collapse.
    Step 2. Get bogged down, slaughtered wholesale, make NATO double it's budget and flood Ukraine with gear.
    Step 3. Let Wagner empty half of Russia's prisons. Proceed to walk those people into Bakhmut to be ground down.
    Step 4. After withdrawing from Kiev, Karkhiv and Kherson, nuke Bakhmut and take the rubble at the cost of tens of thousands of lives.
    Step 5. Withdraw from Bakhmut.
    Step 6. Get Russian territory raided by Russians fighting for Ukraine.
    Step 7. Get Russia invaded by Wagner.
    Step 8. Declare Wagner traitors then undeclared them traitors, then declare them traitors again then underclare them again.
    Step 9. Have Potato Man rescue Russia.

    I mean ...what the actual fuck is this Russia?

  12. #32592
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    So let's summarize this.

    Step 1. Launch a 3 day invasion of Ukraine. Make NATO collapse.
    Step 2. Get bogged down, slaughtered wholesale, make NATO double it's budget and flood Ukraine with gear.
    Step 3. Let Wagner empty half of Russia's prisons. Proceed to walk those people into Bakhmut to be ground down.
    Step 4. After withdrawing from Kiev, Karkhiv and Kherson, nuke Bakhmut and take the rubble at the cost of tens of thousands of lives.
    Step 5. Withdraw from Bakhmut.
    Step 6. Get Russian territory raided by Russians fighting for Ukraine.
    Step 7. Get Russia invaded by Wagner.
    Step 8. Declare Wagner traitors then undeclared them traitors, then declare them traitors again then underclare them again.
    Step 9. Have Potato Man rescue Russia.

    I mean ...what the actual fuck is this Russia?
    You forgot to mention NATO actually EXPANDED...Oh, and have blowing up a dam backfire as now it seems Ukraine has crossed the Dnipro river much easier...

  13. #32593
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    So let's summarize this.

    Step 1. Launch a 3 day invasion of Ukraine. Make NATO collapse.
    Step 2. Get bogged down, slaughtered wholesale, make NATO double it's budget and flood Ukraine with gear.
    Step 3. Let Wagner empty half of Russia's prisons. Proceed to walk those people into Bakhmut to be ground down.
    Step 4. After withdrawing from Kiev, Karkhiv and Kherson, nuke Bakhmut and take the rubble at the cost of tens of thousands of lives.
    Step 5. Withdraw from Bakhmut.
    Step 6. Get Russian territory raided by Russians fighting for Ukraine.
    Step 7. Get Russia invaded by Wagner.
    Step 8. Declare Wagner traitors then undeclared them traitors, then declare them traitors again then underclare them again.
    Step 9. Have Potato Man rescue Russia.

    I mean ...what the actual fuck is this Russia?
    I'm trying to think of the equivalent for "stupid Watergate" in this scenario. Really, just the level of incompetence and ineptitude from top to bottom is astounding.

    The greatest achievement of Vladimir Putin remains in convincing the world that Russia was a functional nation with a modern, competent military.

  14. #32594
    Kramatorsk: Russian missile strike hits restaurants in Ukrainian city

    Problem is that they don't need a modern, competent military in order to terrorise.

    Forgetting the obvious possible negative conclusions to this, can anyone think of a positive one?

  15. #32595
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    So let's summarize this.

    Step 1. Launch a 3 day invasion of Ukraine. Make NATO collapse.
    Step 2. Get bogged down, slaughtered wholesale, make NATO double it's budget and flood Ukraine with gear.
    Step 3. Let Wagner empty half of Russia's prisons. Proceed to walk those people into Bakhmut to be ground down.
    Step 4. After withdrawing from Kiev, Karkhiv and Kherson, nuke Bakhmut and take the rubble at the cost of tens of thousands of lives.
    Step 5. Withdraw from Bakhmut.
    Step 6. Get Russian territory raided by Russians fighting for Ukraine.
    Step 7. Get Russia invaded by Wagner.
    Step 8. Declare Wagner traitors then undeclared them traitors, then declare them traitors again then underclare them again.
    Step 9. Have Potato Man rescue Russia.

    I mean ...what the actual fuck is this Russia?
    Also, no real goals when they can't do what they need so they just do... something. Lobbing missiles at random places in Ukraine... wow, that will show them! (...what an awful country you are, and are better off with the West)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I'm trying to think of the equivalent for "stupid Watergate" in this scenario. Really, just the level of incompetence and ineptitude from top to bottom is astounding.

    The greatest achievement of Vladimir Putin remains in convincing the world that Russia was a functional nation with a modern, competent military.
    I saw a funny meme that tried to explain this shit-show for Americans, if the roles where reversed and it was during Desert Storm had it gone the similar as this war. Lemme check if I can find it.

    Here:


    So yeah, Bargain Bin Desert Storm, Stupid Asshole Edition?
    Last edited by Voidism; 2023-06-27 at 08:17 PM.

  16. #32596
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    /snip
    What's this crap? Prigozhin is no Gordon Ramsay.

    He's some shit Russian version of Gino d'Acampo

  17. #32597
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    Also, no real goals when they can't do what they need so they just do... something. Lobbing missiles at random places in Ukraine... wow, that will show them! (...what an awful country you are, and are better off with the West)

    - - - Updated - - -



    I saw a funny meme that tried to explain this shit-show for Americans, if the roles where reversed and it was during Desert Storm had it gone the similar as this war. Lemme check if I can find it.

    Here:


    So yeah, Bargain Bin Desert Storm, Stupid Asshole Edition?
    At least we can bond over Blackwater and Wagner being same shit different piles.

  18. #32598
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    Putin is just one in a long line of dictators, authoritarian leaders who held power by playing entities/people in high position against each other. Hitler, Stalin the list can be endless.
    Guess he finally payed the price to some extent for not monopolizing the use of force but instead rely on a of Wagner kinda of groups along with a military in shambles.
    At minimum it showed every russian that calling someone traitor and within a day saying they will walk away scotch free will tell even the most indoctrinated morons that something is fishy about Putlers hold on power.
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  19. #32599
    The head of the rosgvardia has reportedly said they will be getting tanks and heavy artillery, so it looks like they are going full waffen SS. Except without the training, discipline, fanaticism, skill or swanky uniforms. A second parallel army can never go wrong.

    And no doubt they will get prioritised for the best equipment, which can only further weaken the war effort.

  20. #32600
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    The head of the rosgvardia has reportedly said they will be getting tanks and heavy artillery, so it looks like they are going full waffen SS. Except without the training, discipline, fanaticism, skill or swanky uniforms. A second parallel army can never go wrong.

    And no doubt they will get prioritised for the best equipment, which can only further weaken the war effort.
    Yup it is logical move but any equipment they get is getting pulled from somewhere and now you have heavily armed units closer to places of power so you also increase the risk of them popping off and starting a coup themselves.

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