Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Kralljin]

He's been mocked for a century for it.

Unpopular truth that often gets ignored on this front is also that appeasement was pretty popular, which in hindsight seems obviously very silly but then you have to keep in mind that we're talking about a generation branded by WW1.

No one wanted another repetition of WW1 which basically consumed an entire generation of young men and even the ones that survived it were mentally / physically scarred (or both).
If they (meaning the Allies) wanted to prevent WW2 on the scale has it happened, they would've been the ones to light the keg and waltz into Germany (ignoring France's incompetence in '39 and '40) and justify that to their people.

Also, Britain (at the very least) didn't completely sit on its arse and started rearming, which obviously helped them down the line to fight off Germany.

Now however, neither Boomers or any generation raised after them has that excuse that the generation that lived through WW1 had, as they were raised in peace times.
And while Britain in the 30's rearmed, even the suggestion to send lethal aid to Ukraine would've been thrown out of the window by some European government no less than two years ago (looking at you, Germany).

[Zaydin]

ww2 started when hitler invaded poland didn't it?

We already have a guy invading another country here, that guy has the 2nd best army and has used his most powerful weapons minus nukes. He also lost tons of personnel and the war has turned into an existential one for him. If this is not the beginning of ww3 then what is?

It's not like all the battles occur at the same time.

WW2 arguably started with the Japanese invasion of China.

[Vampiregenesis]

I mean, they have the second best military in Ukraine right now, yeah. But the invasion did wonders in terms of absolutely obliterating the myth of the modern Russian fighting force. They were neither well equipped nor well trained, it was all just propaganda.

Not a Russian army fan here, however do you think any other country would perform better considering what they are up against? Perhaps the US or China, who else could do better?

Ukraine has a big land and atm they possess one of the strongest armies in Europe with all the help they got. I mean give the other guys a break.

[Makabreska]

Not a Russian army fan here, however do you think any other country would perform better considering what they are up against? Perhaps the US or China, who else could do better?

Ukraine has a big land and atm they possess one of the strongest armies in Europe with all the help they got. I mean give the other guys a break.

Yes, let's give a break an army that for decades was posturing as 2nd best but it turned out to be riddled with incompetence, corruption and low morale. The army that got pushed from Kiev BEFORE all the support started pouring in. Let's cut em some slack!

[Edge-]

Not a Russian army fan here, however do you think any other country would perform better considering what they are up against? Perhaps the US or China, who else could do better?

Up against with western support? Yeah, less so.

But prior to the strong support from global partners and very quickly after that support started flowing in that myth was absolutely dismantled. Remember, for all the weapons and everything being sent to Ukraine - which we shouldn't downplay the importance of (or the training) - it's still "just" the Ukrainian military and international volunteers fighting against the Russian army. The supposedly second best army in the world. In non-insurgent conditions.

Yes, I think many other countries would have had more initial success and made the comeback that Ukraine has made significantly less likely/more difficult. China, the US, hell some of the NATO countries even with their respective militaries.

Now, well over a year into the war the conditions have changed radically with extensive support, training, and supplies from NATO/EU/global partners and with Russia burning through a lot of its more modern equipment while they've been reliant on Wagner to do a lot of the heavy lifting for their military, yes things are radically different and the Ukrainian military has made massive gains in terms of training and access to equipment. But early on under those conditions? Absolutely a number of other countries would have had more initial success than Russia.

Note: I am not a military expert dude, this is just my opinion following the war since the early days. Very likely I've got grossly uninformed opinions and someone with more knowledge than me can come in with a better take. But you asked my opinion, here it is.

[jonnysensible]

Not a Russian army fan here, however do you think any other country would perform better considering what they are up against? Perhaps the US or China, who else could do better?

Ukraine has a big land and atm they possess one of the strongest armies in Europe with all the help they got. I mean give the other guys a break.

i mean if you ever want to see what an actual super power can do : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxRgfBXn6Mg

russia are very poor.

[Calfredd]

Not a Russian army fan here, however do you think any other country would perform better considering what they are up against? Perhaps the US or China, who else could do better?

Ukraine has a big land and atm they possess one of the strongest armies in Europe with all the help they got. I mean give the other guys a break.

As a reminder, Russia attacked a strategically worthless piece of land in Ukraine and after a year of this "3-day special operations", they were pushed out and actually lost ground. What a worthless thing for Russia to do if they actually had a strong military. And you should be ashamed of yourself for falling for the lies like YUPPIE did.

[SAY HER NAME]

We can talk a lot abt the invasion of Libya and its consequences but the defeat of gaddafi was pretty quick

Operation dessert storm too.


Youd expect something like that from the supposed second strongest military in the world. As is, Russia is fighting a literal third world country in its border and barely making progress

[jonnysensible]

We can talk a lot abt the invasion of Libya and its consequences but the defeat of gaddafi was pretty quick

Operation dessert storm too.


Youd expect something like that from the supposed second strongest military in the world. As is, Russia is fighting a literal third world country in its border and barely making progress

not just that it looks like it has degraded its offensive capabilities. Going on material and personnel losses, can Russia launch another offensive? it will defo never be a ground threat to nato ever again.

[Gorsameth]

Not a Russian army fan here, however do you think any other country would perform better considering what they are up against? Perhaps the US or China, who else could do better?

Ukraine has a big land and atm they possess one of the strongest armies in Europe with all the help they got. I mean give the other guys a break.

They got all that help mostly After Russia already lost the push for Kyiv.

Russia's incompetence and corruption lost them this war before Western aid even got off the ground.

[Forogil]

Up against with western support? Yeah, less so.

But prior to the strong support from global partners and very quickly after that support started flowing in that myth was absolutely dismantled. Remember, for all the weapons and everything being sent to Ukraine - which we shouldn't downplay the importance of (or the training) - it's still "just" the Ukrainian military and international volunteers fighting against the Russian army. The supposedly second best army in the world. In non-insurgent conditions.

Yes, I think many other countries would have had more initial success and made the comeback that Ukraine has made significantly less likely/more difficult. China, the US, hell some of the NATO countries even with their respective militaries.

Press X for doubt.

Most western countries don't have the artillery shells that both Ukraine and Russia had at the start of the 2022 war. The UK would reportedly have lasted 8 days before running dry with Ukrainian use (that was before major western deliveries).

Basically Ukraine began preparing after the war started in 2014; many western countries still enjoyed the peace dividend until 2022.

Yes, better quality would have helped - but quantity has a quality of its own.

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We can talk a lot abt the invasion of Libya and its consequences but the defeat of gaddafi was pretty quick

Operation dessert storm too.

Well, it was quick once it started - but there was also a long preparation where the intentions were clear, without any attempt at disinformation whether an attack would happen at all.

[Jastall]

Not a Russian army fan here, however do you think any other country would perform better considering what they are up against? Perhaps the US or China, who else could do better?

Ukraine has a big land and atm they possess one of the strongest armies in Europe with all the help they got. I mean give the other guys a break.

US certainly, China too, likely the stronger NATO countries like France as well, provided they were determined to do so for whatever reason and prepared a bit in advance.

Ukraine has easily one of the best armies in Europe now, after more than a year of constant supply and training from NATO. At the outbreak of the conflict they weren't anything special on the world stage and Russia still failed to accomplish any of their war goals, despite attacking a country they border while America carried out far more decisive and organized operations literally on the other side of the planet which is just on another level in terms of preparation and coordination required.

Yes, Russia grossly underperformed under their circumstances. Had they been having a hard time pacifying the country I'd "cut them some slack", even if only grudgingly. But failing in their conquest so badly is extremely embarrassing. It's as if America tried to conquer Canada and was still failing to gain ground after a year and a half, imagine how risible that would be.

[YUPPIE]

Russia is currently bracing for an all-out final battle at ZPP

UK Defence Intelligence has reported that Russia has pulled military formations from all over the country in order to restrain Ukraine’s counteroffensive.

According to UK Defence Intelligence, the Russian 58th Combined Arms Army, which usually deals with security in the Caucasus region, is operating in Zaporizhzhia Oblast,.

In the vicinity of Velyka Novosilka, Donetsk Oblast, the positions are held by the 5th Combined Arms Army and the Marines. The Russian Federation previously used this formation as a countermeasure to possible aggression from China.

Airborne regiments are mainly holding the defences around Bakhmut; they are usually stationed in western Russia and act as an elite rapid response force in the event of tensions with NATO.

UK intelligence noted that this shows how the war against Ukraine "has dislocated Russia’s established national strategy".

[Corvus]

ww2 started when hitler invaded poland didn't it?

We already have a guy invading another country here, that guy has the 2nd best army and has used his most powerful weapons minus nukes. He also lost tons of personnel and the war has turned into an existential one for him. If this is not the beginning of ww3 then what is?

It's not like all the battles occur at the same time.

There is no similarity at all between the situations. Germany (with russian help) actually took over Poland and didn't get bogged down in a prolonged war there while loosing half his army and most of his best equipment. More so, its main foes had been slow to rearm after WW1 and were only just building up, while the US was full on isolationist.

Pootie is not in the position to attack anyone, and no one is interested in attacking him (though China is no doubt eyeing off the far east and wondering hoe to get it back.)

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Russia is currently bracing for an all-out final battle at ZPP

UK Defence Intelligence has reported that Russia has pulled military formations from all over the country in order to restrain Ukraine’s counteroffensive.

According to UK Defence Intelligence, the Russian 58th Combined Arms Army, which usually deals with security in the Caucasus region, is operating in Zaporizhzhia Oblast,.

In the vicinity of Velyka Novosilka, Donetsk Oblast, the positions are held by the 5th Combined Arms Army and the Marines. The Russian Federation previously used this formation as a countermeasure to possible aggression from China.

Airborne regiments are mainly holding the defences around Bakhmut; they are usually stationed in western Russia and act as an elite rapid response force in the event of tensions with NATO.

UK intelligence noted that this shows how the war against Ukraine "has dislocated Russia’s established national strategy".

Those units have been in Ukraine for pretty much all of the war. They stripped their borders clean very early on - these aren't new commitments.

[Iphie]

Those units have been in Ukraine for pretty much all of the war. They stripped their borders clean very early on - these aren't new commitments.

No russia pulled from the Finnish border, these are new deployments from the Chinese border

[Nymrohd]

On a completely unrelated note, I do wonder if Georgia would dare move to expel Russia from Abkhazia and South Ossetia given current circumstances. People often note that the West should have done something when Russia moved to occupy Crimea and I make a point to counter that Putin's intent was visible back in 2008

[Gaidax]

i don't think so, because that could probably damage its chances of joining NATO.

[Corvus]

Also the current government is pro-russian.

[YUPPIE]

On a completely unrelated note, I do wonder if Georgia would dare move to expel Russia from Abkhazia and South Ossetia given current circumstances.

Georgia would never want to risk Russia's wrath

[D Luniz]

Not a Russian army fan here, however do you think any other country would perform better considering what they are up against? Perhaps the US or China, who else could do better?

Ukraine has a big land and atm they possess one of the strongest armies in Europe with all the help they got. I mean give the other guys a break.

you're ignoring that Ukraine held Kiev and stalled the Russians even before they started getting military support (medical supplies and hard hats don't hold front lines)

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Georgia would never want to risk Russia's wrath

*scoff*, like how someone fears the wrath of kitten
Russia is depleted, and thanks to the Wagner issue, they lost one of their best units
an army under supplied, under trained, and demotivated vs Ukraine
constantly supplied, battle hardened from almost a decade on constant fighting, plus NATO training, and they are pissed as hell for motivation

if Georgia wanted their freedom, this is the time, the most Putin can do is lob missiles at them.