Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Jastall]

Listen, we've sent Ukraine what? Close to 200bln now worth of equipment (that we know off) right?
Have you heard the latest of the counter offensive? They nees more tanks, more missiles, more of everything because they either used it or got destroyed. We've all seen the leopard and Bradley columns burn right?

We've also all have seen huge military depots getting blown up. We've read about Ukraine needing more and more to continue the counter offensive. What does that mean exactly?

200bln is many many years of military budget for most countries in NATO (but 1/3rd for US). Countries are saying no to new requests because they just don't have enough to send
I can link you articles if you cant google.
Thats the definition of dilemilitarization. Slowly but surely we'll be forced to switch to a war footing if we want to keep up. If US wasn't involved in this war, it would be over by now. All the rest NATO countries just dont have the means to give and prolong the war so much.

I know that this make you a bit uncomfortable, but its the truth - what can you do about it (besides maybe cope)?

Unfortunately for your narrative, America is indeed part of NATO. And for them alone 200 bln to kneecap Russia is a bargain they'll take any day of the week.

Germany's pussy footing aside, the general opinion is indeed to keep sending aid, and that's not going to change for a long while no matter how much you might want it to. Because whatever it costs NATO, it costs Russia more and it has a far less robust economy that cannot replace losses in materiel easily, while NATO's military-industrial complex is chomping at the bits for an excuse to make more weapons. The US especially is not even close to being on a "war footing", whatever that's supposed to mean in a modern economy, and they're always the primary senders of aid because if there's one thing Americans know it's guns and gun accessories.

"Demilitarization" lol my man, stop reading Russia Today. Russia will run out of bodies before NATO runs out of weapons to proxy kill them with.

[Mazza]

The very idea that Russia would have success against an organised NATO force is laughable at this point. One of the main reasons Russia isn't being obliterated in Ukraine at the moment is that they have enough control of the air space preventing any decent air support for Ukrainian forces. It's currently inconceivable that Russia would be able to keep much of that control in a conventional conflict against NATO.

[Ulmita]

Every penny given to Ukraine to kill Russians is a penny we don't have to spend killing Russians ourselves.

You, in your psychotic schizo worldview, think that the collective motherfucking West can't outspend fucking Russia on this conflict? You are delusional.

Some questions:
- Do you know that your 1st sentence makes you sound like a nazi? There are Russians that don't approve the war.
- Did anyone at any point said that we can't outspent Russia?
- Do you even understand half of the things that you read?
- Do you read what you write?
- Do you believe that swearing makes you make a point better, or appear more cool?
- What are you? 12?

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The very idea that Russia would have success against an organised NATO force is laughable at this point. One of the main reasons Russia isn't being obliterated in Ukraine at the moment is that they have enough control of the air space preventing any decent air support for Ukrainian forces. It's currently inconceivable that Russia would be able to keep much of that control in a conventional conflict against NATO.

Nope RU can't beat us in a conventional warfare. I even said that it doesn't make sense to even try. I also said that if it goes nuclear, there wont be any winners.
Lastly Mazza, Russia hasn't mobilized dude. A fully mobilized Russia, means millions of soldiers.

[Makabreska]

Nope RU can't beat us in a conventional warfare. I even said that it doesn't make sense to even try. I also said that if it goes nuclear, there wont be any winners.
Lastly Mazza, Russia hasn't mobilized dude. A fully mobilized Russia, means millions of soldiers.

With what equipment? We saw that they couldn't even properly supply the forces they have already sent. With what incentive? We saw tens of thousands of men just running away unopposed to other countries to avoid draft.

So you are basically telling us that Russia could mobilize "millions of soldiers" in current war, yet for some reason they didn't, and instead decided to suffer a chain of humiliating defeats that exposed it's sham of an army and culminated in a pissed off private contractor who decided to stage an unopposed coup?

500th day of this failed invasion and some peeps still believe in "russia stronk".

rofl

[Iphie]

Lastly Mazza, Russia hasn't mobilized dude. A fully mobilized Russia, means millions of soldiers.

Millions of underfed, underequipped and undertrained soldiers, yes that's gonna carry the day...

[Mazza]

Nope RU can't beat us in a conventional warfare. I even said that it doesn't make sense to even try. I also said that if it goes nuclear, there wont be any winners.
Lastly Mazza, Russia hasn't mobilized dude. A fully mobilized Russia, means millions of soldiers.

Infantry masses have started to lose their effectiveness back in WWII, one could even argue that trend started back in 1864 during the US civil war. And that is ALL Russia would be able to do currently with millions of soldiers. And that is assuming they can train them, feed them and equip them. With what we have seen in the last 500 days you must be out of your mind in trusting Russian capacity to do so.

[P for Pancetta]

Officials in NATO, think that the RU nukes work just fine though. You know the guys that actually inspect the deployed warheads and not some military analysts from WoW.

This war is a tragedy man. Ru shouldn't have never invaded, and we shouldn't have never aimed to get Ukraine into NATO.
So many dead from both sides and for what? Everyone fking sucks, thats mt official opinion.

Stop with the idiotic propaganda. NATO is a defensive alliance. There is and never has been a recruitment campaign of eastern European nations, there was never an aim of getting Ukraine into the NATO. Those that joined did so because they wanted to join. Poland basically blackmailed the US into letting them in. It's Ukraine itself now that is begging to join the NATO. And it's the NATO keeping Ukraine out of the NATO for now.

When people share their opinion on issues they are not educated on they tend to sound like idiots.

[Gabriel]

Some questions:
- Do you know that your 1st sentence makes you sound like a nazi? There are Russians that don't approve the war.

Ahh, the good old "You must be a Nazi if you want Russia to stop genociding someone"-argument. I care very little about how Russiaboos and vatniks think I sound like.

- Did anyone at any point said that we can't outspent Russia?

You implied it.

- Do you even understand half of the things that you read?

More than you I'd wager.

- Do you read what you write?

???

- Do you believe that swearing makes you make a point better, or appear more cool?

See the first point. Dealing with you actual Nazi sympathizers is exhausting sometimes, and swearing at you retards does make me feel a bit better about my day tho.

- What are you? 12?

Why? Are you interested?

[Saradain]

Some questions:
- Do you know that your 1st sentence makes you sound like a nazi? There are Russians that don't approve the war.
- Did anyone at any point said that we can't outspent Russia?
- Do you even understand half of the things that you read?
- Do you read what you write?
- Do you believe that swearing makes you make a point better, or appear more cool?
- What are you? 12?

You say that Ukraine, as sovereign independent nation, with its own free will, should not have sought safety from russian nazi aggression by willingly joining NATO, a defensive coalition. And what happened now that they never were in?

What did Russia promise in exchange for Soviet nuclear weapons again? Was it...Non-aggression pact?

You call others 12 while you regurgitate whatever Kremlin outlets tell you to...

When in doubt, call the opposition nazis. Where's the Seymour Skinner meme of "I am wrong? No, it must be the western people who are wrong."

[Jastall]

Millions of underfed, underequipped and undertrained soldiers, yes that's gonna carry the day...

Human wave tactics stopped working before 1914 but people still think weight of numbers counts for shit when cluster ammunition is about to become a thing on the Ukrainian battlefield.

Leave those miles-wide battlelines of conscripts and columns of lined up tanks in 40K where it belongs. Real life warfare is won by logistics, not by who can throw warm bodies around.

To say nothing of the internal cost of mobilization, when the Russian economy is already struggling ( or "on a war footing", some might say) and the guy in charge has been proved to not be as in charge as previously believed.

[Ivanstone]

200bln is many many years of military budget for most countries in NATO (but 1/3rd for US).

Do you not understand what a budget is? Anything sent to Ukraine will be rebuilt. Previously it was just sitting there using maintenance money.

Let's say Germany was a bit nicer and sent everything to Ukraine. This would leave Germany defenceless. So who would attack them? That's right nobody.

Meanwhile Russia barely had the means and competence to get where they were and now they have less.

[Iphie]

Human wave tactics stopped working before 1914 but people still think weight of numbers counts for shit when cluster ammunition is about to become a thing on the Ukrainian battlefield.

Leave those miles-wide battlelines of conscripts and columns of lined up tanks in 40K where it belongs. Real life warfare is won by logistics, not by who can throw warm bodies around.

To say nothing of the internal cost of mobilization, when the Russian economy is already struggling ( or "on a war footing", some might say) and the guy in charge has been proved to not be as in charge as previously believed.

I hope you understand that I am fully aware that human waves will not work and that I was mocking the person I quoted?

[Jastall]

I hope you understand that I am fully aware that human waves will not work and that I was mocking the person I quoted?

Yes. I was just adding to your point. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

[Corvus]

Russia demilitarising NATO? That's some of the biggest cope ever. A huge amount of gear being sent is older, surplus stock, often in storage and costing to be kept there. Giving it to Ukraine saves money. All the ex-soviet gear sent to Ukraine is being replaced but far more modern gear. The Leopard 1s, the Abrams, bradleys and strykers were all stockpiled gear, as will be the f16s when they arrive. And the US has thousands of those vehicles in stockpiles, actually preserved against looting and the elements. Meanwhile Russia has had to dig out 80 year old tanks because of losses.

As is the 155mm cluster rounds, of which the US has an estimated 4.6 million rounds in storage. And testing shows each round is as effective as 5-15 regular rounds when it comes to clearing out trenches.

[Kaleredar]

Russia demilitarising NATO? That's some of the biggest cope ever. A huge amount of gear being sent is older, surplus stock, often in storage and costing to be kept there. Giving it to Ukraine saves money. All the ex-soviet gear sent to Ukraine is being replaced but far more modern gear. The Leopard 1s, the Abrams, bradleys and strykers were all stockpiled gear, as will be the f16s when they arrive. And the US has thousands of those vehicles in stockpiles, actually preserved against looting and the elements. Meanwhile Russia has had to dig out 80 year old tanks because of losses.

As is the 155mm cluster rounds, of which the US has an estimated 4.6 million rounds in storage. And testing shows each round is as effective as 5-15 regular rounds when it comes to clearing out trenches.

Just to add on to this, @Ulmita “Russia is wearing out nato to demilitarize it” is like saying you’re going to adopt the strategy of trying to wear out your opponent’s fist with your face in a boxing match.

[Xyonai]

Just to add on to this, @Ulmita “Russia is wearing out nato to demilitarize it” is like saying you’re going to adopt the strategy of trying to wear out your opponent’s fist with your face in a boxing match.

Ah yes, the Wimp-Lo style of fighting.

[DarkTZeratul]

Just to add on to this, @Ulmita “Russia is wearing out nato to demilitarize it” is like saying you’re going to adopt the strategy of trying to wear out your opponent’s fist with your face in a boxing match.

This can actually be a decent strategy, but only if you know you have the endurance to outlast them. And... Well, the idea that Russia can beat NATO in a war of attrition is laughable. And that's probably putting it mildly.

[Flarelaine]

I almost had my coffee coming out from my nose, please... the only countries that are a threat for Russia is France, UK (because of their nukes) and the US. All others are irrelevant. Most NATO countries don't even have the means of sending army to RU's borders. Greece for example has 2 semi working C 130s.

There is this newfangled thing they call "railroads".

[Forogil]

There is this newfangled thing they call "railroads".

And six NATO countries have borders with Russia, meaing that they already have an army close to the Russian border, and an additional three have borders with Ukraine.

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As is the 155mm cluster rounds, of which the US has an estimated 4.6 million rounds in storage. And testing shows each round is as effective as 5-15 regular rounds when it comes to clearing out trenches.

However, it (and the weird S. Korean loan) also indicates the US haven't yet ramped up production of normal artillery shells.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/17/p...ion/index.html
And I'm not sure if they will stop at 100,000 a month.

[Iphie]

Sweden in NATO, Turkiye in the EU

Bold move , let's see if it pays off...