1. #32941
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Human wave tactics stopped working before 1914 but people still think weight of numbers counts for shit when cluster ammunition is about to become a thing on the Ukrainian battlefield.

    Leave those miles-wide battlelines of conscripts and columns of lined up tanks in 40K where it belongs. Real life warfare is won by logistics, not by who can throw warm bodies around.

    To say nothing of the internal cost of mobilization, when the Russian economy is already struggling ( or "on a war footing", some might say) and the guy in charge has been proved to not be as in charge as previously believed.
    I hope you understand that I am fully aware that human waves will not work and that I was mocking the person I quoted?

  2. #32942
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    I hope you understand that I am fully aware that human waves will not work and that I was mocking the person I quoted?
    Yes. I was just adding to your point. Sorry if it wasn't clear.
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  3. #32943
    Russia demilitarising NATO? That's some of the biggest cope ever. A huge amount of gear being sent is older, surplus stock, often in storage and costing to be kept there. Giving it to Ukraine saves money. All the ex-soviet gear sent to Ukraine is being replaced but far more modern gear. The Leopard 1s, the Abrams, bradleys and strykers were all stockpiled gear, as will be the f16s when they arrive. And the US has thousands of those vehicles in stockpiles, actually preserved against looting and the elements. Meanwhile Russia has had to dig out 80 year old tanks because of losses.

    As is the 155mm cluster rounds, of which the US has an estimated 4.6 million rounds in storage. And testing shows each round is as effective as 5-15 regular rounds when it comes to clearing out trenches.

  4. #32944
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Russia demilitarising NATO? That's some of the biggest cope ever. A huge amount of gear being sent is older, surplus stock, often in storage and costing to be kept there. Giving it to Ukraine saves money. All the ex-soviet gear sent to Ukraine is being replaced but far more modern gear. The Leopard 1s, the Abrams, bradleys and strykers were all stockpiled gear, as will be the f16s when they arrive. And the US has thousands of those vehicles in stockpiles, actually preserved against looting and the elements. Meanwhile Russia has had to dig out 80 year old tanks because of losses.

    As is the 155mm cluster rounds, of which the US has an estimated 4.6 million rounds in storage. And testing shows each round is as effective as 5-15 regular rounds when it comes to clearing out trenches.
    Just to add on to this, @Ulmita “Russia is wearing out nato to demilitarize it” is like saying you’re going to adopt the strategy of trying to wear out your opponent’s fist with your face in a boxing match.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
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    Kaleredar is right...
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  5. #32945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Just to add on to this, @Ulmita “Russia is wearing out nato to demilitarize it” is like saying you’re going to adopt the strategy of trying to wear out your opponent’s fist with your face in a boxing match.
    Ah yes, the Wimp-Lo style of fighting.

  6. #32946
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Just to add on to this, @Ulmita “Russia is wearing out nato to demilitarize it” is like saying you’re going to adopt the strategy of trying to wear out your opponent’s fist with your face in a boxing match.
    This can actually be a decent strategy, but only if you know you have the endurance to outlast them. And... Well, the idea that Russia can beat NATO in a war of attrition is laughable. And that's probably putting it mildly.

  7. #32947
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    I almost had my coffee coming out from my nose, please... the only countries that are a threat for Russia is France, UK (because of their nukes) and the US. All others are irrelevant. Most NATO countries don't even have the means of sending army to RU's borders. Greece for example has 2 semi working C 130s.
    There is this newfangled thing they call "railroads".

  8. #32948
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    There is this newfangled thing they call "railroads".
    And six NATO countries have borders with Russia, meaing that they already have an army close to the Russian border, and an additional three have borders with Ukraine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    As is the 155mm cluster rounds, of which the US has an estimated 4.6 million rounds in storage. And testing shows each round is as effective as 5-15 regular rounds when it comes to clearing out trenches.
    However, it (and the weird S. Korean loan) also indicates the US haven't yet ramped up production of normal artillery shells.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/17/p...ion/index.html
    And I'm not sure if they will stop at 100,000 a month.

  9. #32949
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Sweden in NATO, Turkiye in the EU

    Bold move , let's see if it pays off...

  10. #32950
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Sweden in NATO, Turkiye in the EU

    Bold move , let's see if it pays off...
    Erdo can suck it. Getting Sweden in at this point is irrelevant.

  11. #32951
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Erdo can suck it. Getting Sweden in at this point is irrelevant.
    Yeah with all the issues with especially Hungary the EU need to not accept countries like Turkey that are so far from "standard EU values".

  12. #32952
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Sweden in NATO, Turkiye in the EU

    Bold move , let's see if it pays off...
    "Take us in, else we flood EU with immigrants"

    "Take us in, else we block Sweden from NATO"

    10/10 diplomacy. Shouldn't he be busy with putting more of his opposition/journalists in jail? Elections are over, after all. He can stop pretending (also, where is that Turk nationalist guy from last year that claimed here that there is no way Erdo gonna win?).
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-07-10 at 12:02 PM.
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  13. #32953
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Erdo can suck it. Getting Sweden in at this point is irrelevant.
    Yeah, I don't think Erdo actually thought this through, or maybe he never thought he'd end up in this situation...

  14. #32954
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Sweden in NATO, Turkiye in the EU

    Bold move , let's see if it pays off...
    yeah... absolutely no way that present day Turkey is going to be allowed into the EU
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  15. #32955
    Turkey can fuck right off. The turks hate us and everything we stand for. They just wanna leech off the economy and probably open the flood gates for even more illegal immigration. I'm fine with trading Turkey for Sweden in NATO. I would never defend Turkey from an outside attack anyway.

    Alternatively, maybe it's time for the EU to become a true alliance as well with it's own military arm etc.. Even if I'm not terribly pro-EU then a close integration of all the EU militaries into a single entity is a good idea and kind of makes sense I think. It would probably give a much more efficient command structure and simplify logistics, instead of each country trying to maintain an army, navy and air force on their own.

  16. #32956
    Aleksey Avramenko, Belarusian Minister of Transport and Communications and ally to Russian President Vladimir Putin, passed away suddenly this week under mysterious circumstances. The state news agency Belta confirmed Avramenko’s death but has not been able to report a cause.

    This comes as the latest in a series of suspicious deaths amongst Putin’s associates, sparking speculation and concern amongst observers. Over the past year, over 40 significant Russian figures, including oligarchs, politicians, and generals, have died under unusual and often inexplicable circumstances.

    Avramenko’s death followed closely after he was subjected to a series of sanctions relating to the controversial diversion of a plane carrying opposition journalist Roman Pratasevich in 2021. Additionally, his passing comes months after the similar mysterious death of Belarusian foreign minister Vladimir Makei, who had previously condemned Putin’s use of Belarus as a staging area for the ongoing war against Ukraine.
    ------------
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  17. #32957
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Erdo can suck it. Getting Sweden in at this point is irrelevant.
    Pretty much. Sweden is more or less surrounded by NATO members and is a member of the EU. Not many people may know this but the EU has their version of Article 5 (Article 42(7)) and if Sweden is attacked in the current climate there's no way that article isn't being invoked.

  18. #32958
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Pretty much. Sweden is more or less surrounded by NATO members and is a member of the EU. Not many people may know this but the EU has their version of Article 5 (Article 42(7)) and if Sweden is attacked in the current climate there's no way that article isn't being invoked.
    Mind you that article just says any actions deemed necessary, it does not exclude military action but a sternly worded letter would also satisfy the article.

  19. #32959
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Mind you that article just says any actions deemed necessary, it does not exclude military action but a sternly worded letter would also satisfy the article.
    Article 5 of NATO pretty much is any actions deemed necessary too. It doesn't mean rushing in militarily either.

  20. #32960
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Article 5 of NATO pretty much is any actions deemed necessary too. It doesn't mean rushing in militarily either.
    Yes, but it explicitly states that an attack on one will be considered an attack on all, the EU article does not say that. In any case the US and the UK have said they would help Sweden if they would be subject to aggression during this process.

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