1. #32961
    Banned Cynical Asshole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Mind you that article just says any actions deemed necessary, it does not exclude military action but a sternly worded letter would also satisfy the article.
    It's expected of the EU to defend any members that are attacked by an outside enemy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Sweden in NATO, Turkiye in the EU

    Bold move , let's see if it pays off...
    Sure. Because Turkey should not only be Putin's trojan horse in NATO, but also Putin's trojan horse in the EU, and start vetoing shit left and right at Erdogan's whim.

    Turkey is not even a team player in NATO, so why should we assume they would be a team player in the EU?

    Nah. Turkey can wait until they prove they are going to dedicate themselves to the EU, and not play solo in a team, like Erdogan is doing now.
    Last edited by Cynical Asshole; 2023-07-10 at 05:35 PM.

  2. #32962
    Why does everyone use the term/word "accuse" when it comes to Russia and war crimes? They clearly did these things, but "accuse" implies it's not fact.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  3. #32963
    It seems Gerasimov has been shuffled out of command and a guy with deep ties to Wagner has been put in command of the Ukraine operations.

    Which is...weird. https://www.newsweek.com/did-putin-f...mutiny-1811877

  4. #32964
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    It seems Gerasimov has been shuffled out of command and a guy with deep ties to Wagner has been put in command of the Ukraine operations.

    Which is...weird. https://www.newsweek.com/did-putin-f...mutiny-1811877
    Nah, it just confirms that putin is no longer in charge.

  5. #32965
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Nah, it just confirms that putin is no longer in charge.
    Who is, then?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  6. #32966
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Who is, then?
    the person in the window doing the pushing
    "Law and Order", lots of places have had that, Russia, North Korea, Saddam's Iraq.
    Laws can be made to enforce order of cruelty and brutality.
    Equality and Justice, that is how you have peace and a society that benefits all.

  7. #32967
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D Luniz View Post
    the person in the window doing the pushing
    Ivan "The Defenestrator" Ivanovich Smirnoff???
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  8. #32968
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    So Erdogan has agreed to let Sweden join after all.

    CNN — NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg said on Monday that Turkey has agreed to back Sweden’s bid to join the military alliance.

    The announcement comes on the eve of NATO’s summit in Vilnius, Lithuania, and represents a stunning about-face from Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, who had earlier on Monday suggested Sweden could only join the alliance after his country is accepted into the European Union.

  9. #32969
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Who is, then?
    I suspect putin shat his pants when prig came in and caved.

  10. #32970
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    So Erdogan has agreed to let Sweden join after all.


    lets gooo

  11. #32971
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    So Erdogan has agreed to let Sweden join after all.
    I'll believe it when I see it.

  12. #32972
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    So Erdogan has agreed to let Sweden join after all.
    Something happened between Ankara and Moscow.

    First the repatriation of the Azov commanders, now this.

  13. #32973
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    Something happened between Ankara and Moscow.

    First the repatriation of the Azov commanders, now this.
    I don't think it has anything to do with Russia per se. I think Erdogan has been pressured a lot by the West.

    That and I think he sees the writing on the wall.

  14. #32974
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I'll believe it when I see it.
    Government aligned MPs don't really act with autonomy in a country like what Turkey has become, if Erdogan tells them to do it they will.

  15. #32975
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I don't think it has anything to do with Russia per se. I think Erdogan has been pressured a lot by the West.

    That and I think he sees the writing on the wall.
    On Sweden, absolutely.

    The Azov commanders, nah. That was definitely just a giant middle finger to Moscow. Especially as they didn't bother announcing it ahead of time, talking to the Russians or anything. Zelensky went to Turkey to meet Erdogan and they basically just sent them home with him. Ukraine probably lobbied to get them back, but no matter how you look at it, it was a "Fuck you" move towards Russia.

  16. #32976
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Government aligned MPs don't really act with autonomy in a country like what Turkey has become, if Erdogan tells them to do it they will.
    And I'll believe it when the ink is dry. I've had enough with the shit Turkey tries to pull all the time.

  17. #32977
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I don't think it has anything to do with Russia per se. I think Erdogan has been pressured a lot by the West.

    That and I think he sees the writing on the wall.
    I have no unique knowledge her, but that these events (Azov repatriation, Sweden recognition) are happening in the wake of Prig's not-a-coup suggests to me that they may be connected. It's possible that Putin made promises Erdogan now judges worthless.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  18. #32978
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Why does everyone use the term/word "accuse" when it comes to Russia and war crimes? They clearly did these things, but "accuse" implies it's not fact.
    standard language with anything criminal. innocent until proven guilty in a court of law... I don't think the same slander/libel laws quite apply to international war crimes but people tend to still stick to the same language probably partly habit, partly tactful 'for arguments sake'

  19. #32979
    The Unstoppable Force Bakis's Avatar
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    It had to take a turkish election but Erdogan is pragmatic.
    Turkeys economy is in shambles, badly pissing off multiple NATO members who badly need Sweden as an anchor/staging area if Russia would try something in the future in the Baltic area would mean disasterious alianation for Turkey seeking EU membership.

    Guess he understood that the long term game could only be betting on the western powers. Which was obvious to anyone since the Finnish and Swedish application, then again "autocrats" are somewhat volatite..

    ---

    First 'independant and verified' analysis of Russian combat troops death is done. 50 000 dead.
    Good while tragic, when will those people learn anything from their history.
    https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...0342698cf6a409
    Last edited by Bakis; 2023-07-11 at 12:59 AM.
    But soon after Mr Xi secured a third term, Apple released a new version of the feature in China, limiting its scope. Now Chinese users of iPhones and other Apple devices are restricted to a 10-minute window when receiving files from people who are not listed as a contact. After 10 minutes, users can only receive files from contacts.
    Apple did not explain why the update was first introduced in China, but over the years, the tech giant has been criticised for appeasing Beijing.

  20. #32980
    I know it's been understated, but has Ukraine kind of felt more aggressive towards its NATO application recently? It almost feels kind of entitled.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

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