Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Forogil]

Pretty sure Russia went to war with an army they didn't have.

I would say they went to war with the army they had - not the one they thought (or wished) they had.

[YUPPIE]

"launched missiles from Belarus"

if that isn't a DIRECT ATTACK, I don't know what logic one would have to come to see it otherwise

[Calfredd]

"launched missiles from Belarus"

if that isn't a DIRECT ATTACK, I don't know what logic one would have to come to see it otherwise

Should probably unplug your internet modem and take a step outside, do some stress relief (and I don't mean binge drinking) and speak to a professional because your overreactions to. Every. Little. Thing is very unhealthy and counterproductive to an actual discussion because you keep poisoning it.

[Corvus]

russia has been launching missiles from Belarus since day 1.

[YUPPIE]

And why doesn't Ukraine retaliate against Belarus the way they have with Moscow?

[Forogil]

No one is oblivious to the horrors Saudi Arabia propagates. Also, they do double-dealing with Russia against Ukraine.

I'm guessing they're just being pragmatic about the food crisis Russia instigated. Still, Zelenksy shaking hands with MBS is revolting sorry. This is a man always going on about freedom and the evils of tyranny against Russia. It just screams hypocrisy.

That's realpolitik or "beggars can't be choosers", and it's not just Zelensky but also the west in general that have been cozier with Saudi Arabia after the invasion - due to the reliance on oil. And even if Saudia Arabia is less free than even Russia at least they don't go around invading countries like Russia (the civil war in Yemen is messier).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russia...ners-1.6649370

For similar reasons Soviet-Russia was supported by the US during WWII (the lend-lease; that has been re-activated for Ukraine) - despite the gulags, and the genocide against Ukrainians under Stalin; whereas fascist Spain wasn't attacked at all.

[Soulwind]

Should probably unplug your internet modem and take a step outside, do some stress relief (and I don't mean binge drinking) and speak to a professional because your overreactions to. Every. Little. Thing is very unhealthy and counterproductive to an actual discussion because you keep poisoning it.

You say that as if his posts were sincere, which they aren't.

Being counterproductive to conversation is the goal. He's here to spread misinformation and cause specific emotional reactions against specific topics, any serious discussion will reduce the impact, so he mostly avoids having to reason or defend his points, he just waits a few days and writes some new bullshit.

If even one person reads any of his posts and shape their opinion on whatever topic it's about based on it, that's a win for him, regardless of how many people jump in to counter his lies afterwards.

[Forogil]

And why doesn't Ukraine retaliate against Belarus the way they have with Moscow?

Because Ukraine have no interest in also fighting Belarus; and attacking Belarus could have that consequence
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/16/e...ntl/index.html

Yes, the Belarus army is likely in worse shape than the Russian when the current invasion started - but still...

Similarly Russia might threaten the west, but hasn't attacked western help outside of Ukraine - as Russia don't want to fight NATO.

[Nymrohd]

Seriously, what is wrong with you?

Well he is incredibled disturbed. By a variety of things.

[Joszef Kiprich]

"launched missiles from Belarus"

if that isn't a DIRECT ATTACK, I don't know what logic one would have to come to see it otherwise

It isn't a direct attack by Belarus but by Russia. So yeah, you lied again. And as others have mentioned already, Russia has been doing that from day 1.

[Wilian]

Belarus has attacked Ukraine directly

At 18:37, Air Force reported that cruise missiles entered the airspace over Kyiv Oblast. At 18:45, the missiles reached Vinnytsia Oblast. At 18:55, they reached Khmelnytskyi Oblast.

Later, the Air Forces reported that Russian troops launched Kinzhal aeroballistic missiles on Ukraine from the Russian city of Tambov and cruise missiles from Belarus.

Belarus under international law has been a part of this war as belligerent since February 2022 by allowing Russia to use their airspace for missile strikes and letting them invade Ukraine from the north from Belarus. You're year and half late with this hogwash.

[Azadina]

I'm incredibly disturbed

Probably the first honest thing you've said. Now let that sink in, and take action.

[Kallisto]

And even if Saudia Arabia is less free than even Russia at least they don't go around invading countries like Russia (the civil war in Yemen is messier).

Eh Saudi Arabia does have a history of invading countries when their puppets get kicked out. Yemen, Qatar (or Bahrain I can't remember which) just two of them. Then when fighting they'll employ the same tactics as Russia. Attack civilian targets, do a second attack when emergency services are there to clean up. Attack hospitals, schools etc. Saudis did all that during the Yemen conflict.

When it comes to western leaders yeah RealPolitik, People who think morals have a place in diplomacy are naive at best. Stupid and dangerous at worse. Not even western help for Ukraine is based on Morals but Realpolitik. It helps getting the public on side when realpolitik and the moral choice match up like it does with helping Ukraine. Plus Saudi Arabia is Iran's biggest geopolitical rival, so why wouldn't Zelenski get them on side?

For the average person though I guess there's a mix of in Yemen of it is Brown people don't matter, too far away and unfortunately some racist viewpoints, especially in nations where nationalism is high and people being told that Muslim refugees are the cause of all troubles.

[Forogil]

When it comes to western leaders yeah RealPolitik, People who think morals have a place in diplomacy are naive at best. Stupid and dangerous at worse. Not even western help for Ukraine is based on Morals but Realpolitik.

It's both.

Having countries invading other countries is morally wrong - and you don't want it to happen to yourself or your allies; that's why Poland, and the Baltic states are so eager to help - they know that they would be next. Similarly Sweden and Finland find it morally wrong that some countries would have spheres of influence where they dictate foreign policy, and particularly didn't want to be under the boot themselves (as Putin threatened) - and thus chose to attempt to join NATO instead (and in Finland's case have already joined; being particular eager after having experienced Soviet-Russian invasions a few decades back).

And NATO itself was formed as a bulwark against Soviet-Russia - both because it was morally right - and because it was in the countries own interests.

The realpolitik is thus not so much about whether there is military aid, but the extent of it.

It helps getting the public on side when realpolitik and the moral choice match up like it does with helping Ukraine. Plus Saudi Arabia is Iran's biggest geopolitical rival, so why wouldn't Zelenski get them on side?

Pretty much.

For the average person though I guess there's a mix of in Yemen of it is Brown people don't matter, too far away and unfortunately some racist viewpoints, especially in nations where nationalism is high and people being told that Muslim refugees are the cause of all troubles.

Or just that civil wars are generally messy.

[Zaydin]

Well he is incredibled disturbed. By a variety of things.

I just wish I could block him without making the thread a pain to locate in the process. Tired of his bad takes and attempts at 'edgy' profile pics.

[Bakis]

We still don't know how many Soviet soldiers died in the Winter War, or World War 2, or in Afghanistan. We have guesstimates of various accuracy.

I seriously doubt we will know just how many people died under the Russian flag for years to come, or ever. And by Russian flag I mean DNR and LNR conscripts, Wagnerites, Mobiks and Vatniks etc.

Well, for one thing internet, mobile phones etc exists. A bit more easy to certify deaths nowdays.
How accurate might be a debate but can hardly compare the resources and abilities to count to WW2 can we..

[Corvus]

After hitting the only rail line connecting Crimea to the occupied territories the other day, Ukraine have now put out of action 2 of the only 4 road bridges as well.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/stat...721858560?s=20

[Bakis]

I just wish I could block him without making the thread a pain to locate in the process. Tired of his bad takes and attempts at 'edgy' profile pics.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ne/page9999999

Should work. You wont see the thread(if you blocked him like I did) cos that idiot created it but you will hopefully end up at the last page.

[ringpriest]

Should probably unplug your internet modem and take a step outside, do some stress relief (and I don't mean binge drinking) and speak to a professional because your overreactions to. Every. Little. Thing is very unhealthy and counterproductive to an actual discussion because you keep poisoning it.

When someone keeps doing the same thing, that's evidence of intent. And you just explained why they're doing it.

[alach]

Rather off-topic, but I have been thinking about just how far the Russians have embraced being the world's villian.
I'm from the era of GI JOE with all the badass tanks and jets, and of couse I had some Cobra vehicles, like the Mamba - inspired I imagine by the Russian Alligator - not the toy name, the actually code name for the helicopter currently in use. They also have a fighter jets named Felon and Frogfoot.

On the other hand they also have artillery named after flowers...

Upon liberating a village last week that had been occupied by the Russians for a year or so, the Ukrainians noticed a message 'Welcome to Mordor' painted on the wall of an old building.
And to add to it all, Russias really only remaining friends are North Korea, Iran, and some dodgy junta-ruled African countries. Not exactly a great group of bedfellows to be building a new world order with - which is what reportedly Putin was looking for. Hopefully all the other countries fence sitting see what way the wind is blowing on this conflict begin to condemn a little more forcefully. The summit in Jeddah was a good start I think.


And further off-topic, some interesting trivia about the Patriot missile system.
I didn't realize, the Patriot system is made up of 3 seperate systems and needs a crew of 90 personnel.
The entire system costs just about a billion dollars, and each missile is worth about 4 million.
The lives and infrastructure they have saved, absolutely priceless.

And finally for the day, apparently Russia sent a spy to assassinate Zelensky.
From CNN

Alleged Russian informant detained in connection with Zelensky assassination plot, Ukraine security service says
From CNN's Tim Lister and Olga Voitovych

The Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) says it has detained a Russian informant "who was preparing a Russian airstrike in the Mykolaiv region during the visit of the President of Ukraine."

The alleged informant "on the eve of the recent trip of the President of Ukraine to Mykolaiv region, was gathering intelligence about the planned visit," the SBU said.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was in the region at the end of July.

The SBU said in a statement that the alleged conspirator "tried to establish the time and list of locations of the approximate route of the Head of State in the territory of the region."

However, SBU agents had obtained information about the "subversive activities of the suspect" and adopted additional security measures.

In monitoring the communications of the woman, the SBU had established that she also had the task of identifying the location of electronic warfare systems and warehouses with ammunition of the armed forces.

According to the investigation, the perpetrator was a resident of Ochakov, southern Ukraine, and a former saleswoman in a military store on the territory of one of the military units of the region.

She allegedly traveled around the territory of the district and filmed the locations of Ukrainian objects.