Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Gabriel]

The conflict ended with the treaty of minsk, why didn't Ukraine join nato then?

What the fuck are you talking about?

[Forogil]

The conflict ended with the treaty of minsk, why didn't Ukraine join nato then?

Which of the treaties of Minsk ended the conflict? (And Ukraine correctly view them as signed under the barrel of the gun.)

Oh, and remember that Putin left that treaty on February 22 last year, and invaded Ukraine on February 24.

[Vampiregenesis]

What the fuck are you talking about?

I mean, it ended in paper, yes the militias kept fighting there but on paper it officially ended. Nato could have accepted Ukraine then.

On the news, I read that Russia is willing to accept a peace treaty if it keeps the occupied lands and now I ask, could Ukraine agree to this to exit war and then join NATO instantly so that it prevents the next invasion attempt from Russia?

Russia will obviously use this to buy time and rebuild its army for a new invasion but NATO will prevent this doesn't it? or...it still doesn't have the guts to accept Ukraine?

[Xarkan]

Because of Logic, so that they don't get themselves trapped into the loop they are now which is unclear how it will end up, god knows how much more destruction this will cause and if Ukraine will end up victorious with all its lands. I believe the next year will be interesting and I personally believe this will escalate into something much bigger.

I mean well, Russia could still invade but we don't know for sure, they could at least try to "pacify" it, Russia has always been an unstable state and time could benefit Ukraine more than Russia.

There is more than one reason Russia has provided as to why they "had" to do a special mission (or whatever the expression was)

Just because the Nato story sells more newspapers does not guarantee that it even mattered all that much

[Gabriel]

I mean, it ended in paper, yes the militias kept fighting there but on paper it officially ended. Nato could have accepted Ukraine then.

No it fucking didn't, because Russia's troops kept firing on Ukrainians the entire time.

On the news, I read that Russia is willing to accept a peace treaty if it keeps the occupied lands and now I ask, could Ukraine agree to this to exit war and then join NATO instantly so that it prevents the next invasion attempt from Russia?

Ukraine isn't going to accept a treaty where they lose land.

[Deus Mortis]

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV..._all_invaders/
Seems like Ukraine captured Major Tomov and he has been spilling info on where Russian locations are in the area, as well as getting a ton of info from his phone.

[Jastall]

The conflict ended with the treaty of minsk, why didn't Ukraine join nato then?

The one that Russia blatantly didn't respect and broke a couple days before invading? I dunno, you tell me.

[DarkTZeratul]

On the news, I read that Russia is willing to accept a peace treaty if it keeps the occupied lands and now I ask, could Ukraine agree to this to exit war and then join NATO instantly so that it prevents the next invasion attempt from Russia?

It is 100% not on Ukraine to "agree to exit this war." They didn't start it and they aren't invading anyone, it's purely defensive. If someone starts beating the shit out of you, you aren't the one who needs to agree to stop fighting.

[Twdft]

Ukrainians should have remained cautious and simply not provoke further until the timing is better for them to act,

This is some serious wife beater reasoning... "look what you made me do". Disgusting.

[Corvus]

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV..._all_invaders/
Seems like Ukraine captured Major Tomov and he has been spilling info on where Russian locations are in the area, as well as getting a ton of info from his phone.

Interesting that his mobilisation date was well after it was meant to have stopped.

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russia milbloggers are admitting that Urozhaine has fallen - and arguing over who is to blame. One lot is blaming the 37th brigade for not sending tanks to support - but the 37th says whenever they moved tanks forward they were destroyed before they could do anything and its possible they have no tanks left.

But the place was always going to fall. When the Ukrainians took the neighboring town 2 weeks ago, it left the russians in a salient surrounded on three sides.



The russians decided to counteratttack up hill repeatedly until they couldn't do any more then tried to just hold, feeding men into the place while Ukraine used the high ground and the three sides to pulverise them with artilley and JDAMs. They eventually couldn't hold any more - and there is video of them fleeing on foot down the road while getting shredded by artillery and cluster rounds. This unit, or what is left of it, isnow meant to regroup at the next town just a couple of KM down the road and defend again.

russia has no choice but to try as on this axis of advance there is only one line of fortifications built and then nothing between it and Mariupol. And russia may have no reserves left to try and plug the gap. ISW reported that russia is reinforcing positions laterally - they are pulling units from other front line locations to try and hold where Ukraine is attacking. You wouldn't weaken your front lines like that if you had reserves behind the lines.

[diller]

Yes, the annexation of Crimea was illegal and act of war, (although the Soviets gave it to Ukraine, not sure what happened there), however does it matter? did that justify going into a catastrophic war that you can't win for sure? The Russians didn't seem to plan to push their luck further than this.

Ukrainians should have remained cautious and simply not provoke further until the timing is better for them to act, I mean it was the only thing they could do just like the Finnish did, Lol... the Finnish were at the same situation as Ukraine and they joined Nato instantly because Russians were distracted with Ukraine. I think everyone can see the hypocrisy here.

I wonder if Ukraine surrendered the occupied lands to Russia and exited the war, would NATO accept it instantly just like it did with Finland?

I mean the army of Ukraine is strong and they have showed tremendous self sacrifice and faith to the west, if they can accept countries like sweden and finland, why they refuse Ukraine?

Because NATO is the US personal army.

Are you completely disconected from reality or....

Everything you say seems like you have no knowledge about how anything works in the real world or even accept established facts.

Ukraine did not provoke Russia, Russia decided they would liberate regions of Ukraine - how is that the fault of Ukraine?

Ukraine cannot join NATO because they are not and were not a true democracy before the war, they were plagued by corruption and they still are to some extent.

[Corvus]

Ruble is having a bad day. Started the day at about 100 rubles to the USD. Right now its at 102.34 and looking like its getting worse.

[Belize]

Ruble is having a bad day. Started the day at about 100 rubles to the USD. Right now its at 102.34 and looking like its getting worse.

How could this happen, I've been assured by our resident Russian experts that the Russian economy was completely unaffected by the war, and was #1 in the world.

I don't believe for one moment that they might be full of shit, spewing lies and propaganda.

[Relapses]

How could this happen, I've been assured by our resident Russian experts that the Russian economy was completely unaffected by the war, and was #1 in the world.

I don't believe for one moment that they might be full of shit, spewing lies and propaganda.

Tankies and misinformation... name a more iconic duo.

[MCMLXXXII]

Are you completely disconected from reality or....

Everything you say seems like you have no knowledge about how anything works in the real world or even accept established facts.

Ukraine did not provoke Russia, Russia decided they would liberate regions of Ukraine - how is that the fault of Ukraine?

Ukraine cannot join NATO because they are not and were not a true democracy before the war, they were plagued by corruption and they still are to some extent.

This person started in this thread a while ago saying the exact same thing. Then went how am I going to survive because I do business with russians. Then was asking about warporn.
In other words don't take this person seriously.

[Vampiregenesis]

This person started in this thread a while ago saying the exact same thing. Then went how am I going to survive because I do business with russians. Then was asking about warporn.
In other words don't take this person seriously.

I do business with Ukrainians too, I have made lots of money from them too and I couldn't pay them either when the war broke out but everything was resolved within few months so no problems anymore. Neither of them seems to hate each other and most of the Russians that I have seen don't seem to support Putin. I want to also say that there are tons of Ukrainians selling on Russian sites and some even have partners from Russia. One of them couldn't complete a project because they cut his power every few hours and he had to use generators and he suggested me a Russian to complete the project. Well, this isn't what I would call hate. Funnily, this guy was from Bahkmut and had to move to Kyiv. Actually, this electricity cut thing was really annoying and I essentially lost most of my Ukrainians suppliers because of this. I really felt bad for them, the way they described it must have been really terrible situation to be in.

Not sure what you mean by war porn but I'm the only one here who says that this war was pointless and has to end, I don't look like a bloodlust guy don't i?

It's not 100% certain that Russia would invade Ukraine if the later one didn't do business with NATO and tried to show some respect to the history of donbass and Crimea. I mean those regions were donated to them for free didn't they? I could only think there were some terms for this, like respecting the bond they have with Russians. At very least, they should do the above for pure logic alone, it doesn't matter how many rights you have if you can't exercise them, eg. in my country we face a similar situation, we can legally expand our sea borders but we don't because it will cause a war and destroy our country even if we end up winning it.

Ukraine can't join NATO because the US doesn't have the balls to go to war with Russia and it will ruin the advantageous position it is now. I think you are detached from reality, true democracies join NATO, like Turkey right?

[DarkTZeratul]

It's not 100% certain that Russia would invade Ukraine if the later one didn't do business with NATO

So what? Whether Ukraine chooses to do business with NATO or not is none of Russia's concern. They get absolutely zero say in the matter, because Ukraine is an independent nation that does not belong to Russia.

and tried to show some respect to the history of donbass and Crimea. I mean those regions were donated to them for free didn't they?

No they fucking weren't. Russia invaded and took them.

Ukraine can't join NATO because the US doesn't have the balls to go to war with Russia and it will ruin the advantageous position it is now.

Jesus fucking Christ at least properly educate yourself about this kind of thing before you talk shit. Literally no part of what you said is accurate. None. Whatsoever.

[Makabreska]

Yep. This is why I kept calling Vampiregenesis a "Yuppie lite". This is the same type of warped reality perception. Fortunately, this guy rarely posts.

[Gabriel]

I do business with Ukrainians too, I have made lots of money from them too and I couldn't pay them either when the war broke out but everything was resolved within few months so no problems anymore. Neither of them seems to hate each other and most of the Russians that I have seen don't seem to support Putin. I want to also say that there are tons of Ukrainians selling on Russian sites and some even have partners from Russia. One of them couldn't complete a project because they cut his power every few hours and he had to use generators and he suggested me a Russian to complete the project. Well, this isn't what I would call hate. Funnily, this guy was from Bahkmut and had to move to Kyiv. Actually, this electricity cut thing was really annoying and I essentially lost most of my Ukrainians suppliers because of this. I really felt bad for them, the way they described it must have been really terrible situation to be in.

Not sure what you mean by war porn but I'm the only one here who says that this war was pointless and has to end, I don't look like a bloodlust guy don't i?

It's not 100% certain that Russia would invade Ukraine if the later one didn't do business with NATO and tried to show some respect to the history of donbass and Crimea. I mean those regions were donated to them for free didn't they? I could only think there were some terms for this, like respecting the bond they have with Russians. At very least, they should do the above for pure logic alone, it doesn't matter how many rights you have if you can't exercise them, eg. in my country we face a similar situation, we can legally expand our sea borders but we don't because it will cause a war and destroy our country even if we end up winning it.

Ukraine can't join NATO because the US doesn't have the balls to go to war with Russia and it will ruin the advantageous position it is now. I think you are detached from reality, true democracies join NATO, like Turkey right?

Absolutely delusional.

[Vampiregenesis]

So what? Whether Ukraine chooses to do business with NATO or not is none of Russia's concern. They get absolutely zero say in the matter, because Ukraine is an independent nation that does not belong to Russia.

No they fucking weren't. Russia invaded and took them.

Jesus fucking Christ at least properly educate yourself about this kind of thing before you talk shit. Literally no part of what you said is accurate. None. Whatsoever.

NATO is a military organization that has shown extreme aggression in the past where they were given the chance to do so, see libya, serbia, afghanistan, Iraq, these places were ruined forever. Also, it has openly stated that Russia is their primary enemy. I mean it's only natural for Russia to respond to this and prevent it before it's too late, isn't it?

When you do business with something like this, you should be ready for the worst.

- - - Updated - - -

Absolutely delusional.

Dude, no leader wants to see their country getting decimated no matter how big ego or corrupt they are, if you give them half a reason to not go to war, they will take it. I don't think the Russians leaders thought that this will be a walkover, they knew very well that they will pay a heavy price for it. If they were capable to take the risk, they had very serious reasons to do so. It was existential for them.