1. #33781
    Ruble is having a bad day. Started the day at about 100 rubles to the USD. Right now its at 102.34 and looking like its getting worse.

  2. #33782
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Ruble is having a bad day. Started the day at about 100 rubles to the USD. Right now its at 102.34 and looking like its getting worse.
    How could this happen, I've been assured by our resident Russian experts that the Russian economy was completely unaffected by the war, and was #1 in the world.

    I don't believe for one moment that they might be full of shit, spewing lies and propaganda.

  3. #33783
    Quote Originally Posted by Belize View Post
    How could this happen, I've been assured by our resident Russian experts that the Russian economy was completely unaffected by the war, and was #1 in the world.

    I don't believe for one moment that they might be full of shit, spewing lies and propaganda.
    Tankies and misinformation... name a more iconic duo.

  4. #33784
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    Quote Originally Posted by diller View Post
    Are you completely disconected from reality or....

    Everything you say seems like you have no knowledge about how anything works in the real world or even accept established facts.

    Ukraine did not provoke Russia, Russia decided they would liberate regions of Ukraine - how is that the fault of Ukraine?

    Ukraine cannot join NATO because they are not and were not a true democracy before the war, they were plagued by corruption and they still are to some extent.
    This person started in this thread a while ago saying the exact same thing. Then went how am I going to survive because I do business with russians. Then was asking about warporn.
    In other words don't take this person seriously.

  5. #33785
    Quote Originally Posted by Hansworst View Post
    This person started in this thread a while ago saying the exact same thing. Then went how am I going to survive because I do business with russians. Then was asking about warporn.
    In other words don't take this person seriously.
    I do business with Ukrainians too, I have made lots of money from them too and I couldn't pay them either when the war broke out but everything was resolved within few months so no problems anymore. Neither of them seems to hate each other and most of the Russians that I have seen don't seem to support Putin. I want to also say that there are tons of Ukrainians selling on Russian sites and some even have partners from Russia. One of them couldn't complete a project because they cut his power every few hours and he had to use generators and he suggested me a Russian to complete the project. Well, this isn't what I would call hate. Funnily, this guy was from Bahkmut and had to move to Kyiv. Actually, this electricity cut thing was really annoying and I essentially lost most of my Ukrainians suppliers because of this. I really felt bad for them, the way they described it must have been really terrible situation to be in.

    Not sure what you mean by war porn but I'm the only one here who says that this war was pointless and has to end, I don't look like a bloodlust guy don't i?

    It's not 100% certain that Russia would invade Ukraine if the later one didn't do business with NATO and tried to show some respect to the history of donbass and Crimea. I mean those regions were donated to them for free didn't they? I could only think there were some terms for this, like respecting the bond they have with Russians. At very least, they should do the above for pure logic alone, it doesn't matter how many rights you have if you can't exercise them, eg. in my country we face a similar situation, we can legally expand our sea borders but we don't because it will cause a war and destroy our country even if we end up winning it.

    Ukraine can't join NATO because the US doesn't have the balls to go to war with Russia and it will ruin the advantageous position it is now. I think you are detached from reality, true democracies join NATO, like Turkey right?
    Last edited by Vampiregenesis; 2023-08-14 at 05:17 PM.

  6. #33786
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    It's not 100% certain that Russia would invade Ukraine if the later one didn't do business with NATO
    So what? Whether Ukraine chooses to do business with NATO or not is none of Russia's concern. They get absolutely zero say in the matter, because Ukraine is an independent nation that does not belong to Russia.

    and tried to show some respect to the history of donbass and Crimea. I mean those regions were donated to them for free didn't they?
    No they fucking weren't. Russia invaded and took them.

    Ukraine can't join NATO because the US doesn't have the balls to go to war with Russia and it will ruin the advantageous position it is now.
    Jesus fucking Christ at least properly educate yourself about this kind of thing before you talk shit. Literally no part of what you said is accurate. None. Whatsoever.

  7. #33787
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Yep. This is why I kept calling Vampiregenesis a "Yuppie lite". This is the same type of warped reality perception. Fortunately, this guy rarely posts.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-08-14 at 05:24 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  8. #33788
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    I do business with Ukrainians too, I have made lots of money from them too and I couldn't pay them either when the war broke out but everything was resolved within few months so no problems anymore. Neither of them seems to hate each other and most of the Russians that I have seen don't seem to support Putin. I want to also say that there are tons of Ukrainians selling on Russian sites and some even have partners from Russia. One of them couldn't complete a project because they cut his power every few hours and he had to use generators and he suggested me a Russian to complete the project. Well, this isn't what I would call hate. Funnily, this guy was from Bahkmut and had to move to Kyiv. Actually, this electricity cut thing was really annoying and I essentially lost most of my Ukrainians suppliers because of this. I really felt bad for them, the way they described it must have been really terrible situation to be in.

    Not sure what you mean by war porn but I'm the only one here who says that this war was pointless and has to end, I don't look like a bloodlust guy don't i?

    It's not 100% certain that Russia would invade Ukraine if the later one didn't do business with NATO and tried to show some respect to the history of donbass and Crimea. I mean those regions were donated to them for free didn't they? I could only think there were some terms for this, like respecting the bond they have with Russians. At very least, they should do the above for pure logic alone, it doesn't matter how many rights you have if you can't exercise them, eg. in my country we face a similar situation, we can legally expand our sea borders but we don't because it will cause a war and destroy our country even if we end up winning it.

    Ukraine can't join NATO because the US doesn't have the balls to go to war with Russia and it will ruin the advantageous position it is now. I think you are detached from reality, true democracies join NATO, like Turkey right?
    Absolutely delusional.

  9. #33789
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    So what? Whether Ukraine chooses to do business with NATO or not is none of Russia's concern. They get absolutely zero say in the matter, because Ukraine is an independent nation that does not belong to Russia.

    No they fucking weren't. Russia invaded and took them.

    Jesus fucking Christ at least properly educate yourself about this kind of thing before you talk shit. Literally no part of what you said is accurate. None. Whatsoever.
    NATO is a military organization that has shown extreme aggression in the past where they were given the chance to do so, see libya, serbia, afghanistan, Iraq, these places were ruined forever. Also, it has openly stated that Russia is their primary enemy. I mean it's only natural for Russia to respond to this and prevent it before it's too late, isn't it?

    When you do business with something like this, you should be ready for the worst.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Absolutely delusional.
    Dude, no leader wants to see their country getting decimated no matter how big ego or corrupt they are, if you give them half a reason to not go to war, they will take it. I don't think the Russians leaders thought that this will be a walkover, they knew very well that they will pay a heavy price for it. If they were capable to take the risk, they had very serious reasons to do so. It was existential for them.

  10. #33790
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Yup, that's what I was talking about.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  11. #33791
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    NATO is a military organization that has shown extreme aggression in the past where they were given the chance to do so, see libya, serbia, afghanistan, Iraq, these places were ruined forever. Also, it has openly stated that Russia is their primary enemy. I mean it's only natural for Russia to respond to this and prevent it before it's too late, isn't it?

    When you do business with something like this, you should be ready for the worst.
    Neither Afghanistan nor Irak were NATO operations lol. Libya hardly counts as the place was deep in civil war by the time American planes flew missions. So that leaves Serbia, back in the 90's, where "aggression" is kind of an oversimplification but whatever. And currently I'm fairly sure most in Europe are more worried of Russian aggression given that aside from Ukraine (twice) they also have Georgia and Chechnya (twice) under their belt in the last 20 years. 5-1 in favor of Russia when it comes to aggression versus NATO proper.

    NATO has again nothing to do with this. Ukraine hardly received military aid at all prior to the conflict because causing escalation wasn't in NATO's interests (unlike benefiting from said escalation caused by Russia, right now). NATO is the boogeyman that Russia keeps waving around for internal consumption. If that was the problem they wouldn't try to conquer a country that would then make them neighbor with more NATO nations than when they started. The problem was Ukraine no longer kissing the ring so Russia doesn't have unrestricted access to its resources and most of all Sevastopol. Those are the issues. Not NATO.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

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  12. #33792
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    I don't think the Russians leaders thought that this will be a walkover, they knew very well that they will pay a heavy price for it. If they were capable to take the risk, they had very serious reasons to do so. It was existential for them.
    This is absolutely detached from all objective reality around this war and the circumstances.

    Like...what the hell?

    Remember how it was supposed to be a "3-day, special operation"? What was the longterm strategic goal if it was always going to be a drawn out affair, lifting the veil on the fantastically successful propaganda efforts that boosted the myth of the modern, competent, well trained and equipped Russian military so that the world could see them for the incompetent grifters it has become?

  13. #33793
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post

    Dude, no leader wants to see their country getting decimated no matter how big ego or corrupt they are, if you give them half a reason to not go to war, they will take it. I don't think the Russians leaders thought that this will be a walkover, they knew very well that they will pay a heavy price for it. If they were capable to take the risk, they had very serious reasons to do so. It was existential for them.
    This is precisely the sort of bullshit naivety that gets your country invaded by Russia.

  14. #33794
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Neither Afghanistan nor Irak were NATO operations lol. Libya hardly counts as the place was deep in civil war by the time American planes flew missions. So that leaves Serbia, back in the 90's, where "aggression" is kind of an oversimplification but whatever. And currently I'm fairly sure most in Europe are more worried of Russian aggression given that aside from Ukraine (twice) they also have Georgia and Chechnya (twice) under their belt in the last 20 years. 5-1 in favor of Russia when it comes to aggression versus NATO proper.

    NATO has again nothing to do with this. Ukraine hardly received military aid at all prior to the conflict because causing escalation wasn't in NATO's interests (unlike benefiting from said escalation caused by Russia, right now). NATO is the boogeyman that Russia keeps waving around for internal consumption. If that was the problem they wouldn't try to conquer a country that would then make them neighbor with more NATO nations than when they started. The problem was Ukraine no longer kissing the ring so Russia doesn't have unrestricted access to its resources and most of all Sevastopol. Those are the issues. Not NATO.
    Russia already had all of this during Poroshenko and it didn't invade, they had no reason to invade. It amassed troops on 2020 I think but removed them, why it didn't invade then?

    Also, do the people from donbas and crimea matter at all? why are they so overwhelmingly on the side of Russia? why do these places managed to win autonomy? I don't think Russian militias alone could do that, the land is way too big for this. Donbass alone is almost the size of my country.

    and now I ask you, isn't this a major political failure on Ukraine's part? please don't tell me that Ukraine should do whatever it wants with its lands and people. Think with logic for once. What will exactly Ukraine will liberate? I really wonder, I was reading news from a neutral or pro Ukraine site and they even mentioned that some of the population there tried to poison the ukraine troops.
    Last edited by Vampiregenesis; 2023-08-14 at 05:58 PM.

  15. #33795
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    Russia already had all of this during Poroshenko and it didn't invade, it amassed troops on 2020 I think but removed them, why it didn't invade then?
    Because Russia bluffs a lot hoping others will blink, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    Also, do the people from donbas and crimea matter at all? why are they so overwhelmingly on the side of Russia? why do these places managed to win autonomy? I don't think Russian militias alone could do that, the land is way too big for this.
    They're welcome to move to Russia if they want to be Russian. They didn't "win autonomy" rofl where did you hear that nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    and now I ask you, isn't this a major political failure on Ukraine's part?
    ...did you follow anything regarding the annexation of Crimea or the Russian influence in the "voting" in Donbas etc? It sure doesn't seem like you did...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    please don't tell me that Ukraine should do whatever it wants.
    I mean...with their territory kinda yeah? If California wants to suddenly join Canada we don't get to simply hold a vote and then join Canada. That's not how this works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    What will exactly Ukraine will liberate?
    Their sovereign territory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    I really wonder, I was reading news from a neutral or pro Ukraine site and they even mentioned that some of the population tried to poison the ukraine troops.
    Yes, so arrest those folks and prosecute them. Not sure what this has to do with anything.

  16. #33796
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They're welcome to move to Russia if they want to be Russian. They didn't "win autonomy" rofl where did you hear that nonsense.
    They won a special status after the treaty of Minsk. Well, not exactly autonomy but they could choose their own goverment and a few more things that I don't know. How does one achieve that in a land as big as donbas and without invading it totally?

    Why would Russia need to bluff if according to people here had already decided to invade?

    What was the purpose of the bluff?

    In a state people matter too especially if they have been there for centuries and they had also fought some terrible wars for their home like ww2. Ukraine had to take into account that, only an ultranationalist would say that you can send them to Russia now that they are not what you want them to be. Life doesn't work like that and well, the effects of this mindset can already be seen on the battlefield.
    Last edited by Vampiregenesis; 2023-08-14 at 06:13 PM.

  17. #33797
    Vampiregenesis is posing clear bad faith arguments as he implies the referenda to annex donbas were anything close to even resembling legitimate
    Last edited by Veggie50; 2023-08-14 at 06:21 PM.

  18. #33798
    I...is...is that the Great Value version of Shalcker?

  19. #33799
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    Also, do the people from donbas and crimea matter at all?
    Did it ever occur to you that Russian speaking Ukrainians in Eastern Ukraine wanted to elect a friendly-to-Russia president yet wanted to remain Ukrainian citizens?

    Furthermore look at cities like Mariupol. It’s fucking totalled and it was full of people who were friendly to Russia voters.

  20. #33800
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    They won a special status after the treaty of Minsk.
    Which, Minks 1 or 2? Because 1 didn't work. And 2 didn't even really work either and was never fully implemented.

    And per Putin - Minsk 2 no longer exists following Russia's invasion - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60488037

    Diplomatic efforts to avert the Ukraine crisis have so far failed, and in Russia on Tuesday President Putin said the Minsk agreements - the peace deals aimed at averting years-long conflict in eastern Ukraine - "do not exist".
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    Why would Russia need to bluff if according to people here had already decided to invade?

    What was the purpose of the bluff?
    Russia has not made logical or rational strategic plays for a while, why are you looking for logical and strategic plays from a nation that's spent the past year decimating its own military for literally no reason, destroying their economy in the process, and making it so that no nation will basically ever fear the Russian military again?

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