1. #33961
    Russia attacks a civilian theatre today, almost killing a hundred people

    On the morning of 19 August, Russian troops hit the centre of Chernihiv, probably with a ballistic missile. There are civilians killed and wounded.

    "It was a holiday morning on Saturday. People were leaving the church with baskets filled with consecrated apples... As of 13:00, we had established that 42 people were affected as a result of the Russian attack on the Chernihiv Music and Drama Theatre. Five people were killed. 37 people were wounded, including 11 children. All of them are receiving medical assistance."

    Ukraine’s Interior Ministry later reported that seven people were killed and 90 injured.... 90 injured people have sought medical assistance. Among them are 10 police officers and 12 children. 25 people were hospitalized. A 12-year-old girl is being urgently transported to Kyiv by ambulance. The child is in critical condition.

    A fire broke out on the roof of a building. Rescue workers quickly extinguished the fire. 20 investigative teams of Chernihiv police and two forensic laboratories are working at the scene."

    President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who left for Sweden, published a video from the scene.

    "The square, the polytechnic university and the theatre. Russia turned an ordinary Saturday into a day of pain and loss. There are people who have been killed and wounded. My condolences to those who have lost their relatives," Zelenskyy wrote on social media, commenting on the attack on the centre of Chernihiv.

    The president promised to work on the greater world’s consolidation against Russian terror.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  2. #33962
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    3,078
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Russia attacks a civilian theatre today, almost killing a hundred people

    On the morning of 19 August, Russian troops hit the centre of Chernihiv, probably with a ballistic missile. There are civilians killed and wounded.

    "It was a holiday morning on Saturday. People were leaving the church with baskets filled with consecrated apples... As of 13:00, we had established that 42 people were affected as a result of the Russian attack on the Chernihiv Music and Drama Theatre. Five people were killed. 37 people were wounded, including 11 children. All of them are receiving medical assistance."

    Ukraine’s Interior Ministry later reported that seven people were killed and 90 injured.... 90 injured people have sought medical assistance. Among them are 10 police officers and 12 children. 25 people were hospitalized. A 12-year-old girl is being urgently transported to Kyiv by ambulance. The child is in critical condition.

    A fire broke out on the roof of a building. Rescue workers quickly extinguished the fire. 20 investigative teams of Chernihiv police and two forensic laboratories are working at the scene."

    President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who left for Sweden, published a video from the scene.

    "The square, the polytechnic university and the theatre. Russia turned an ordinary Saturday into a day of pain and loss. There are people who have been killed and wounded. My condolences to those who have lost their relatives," Zelenskyy wrote on social media, commenting on the attack on the centre of Chernihiv.

    The president promised to work on the greater world’s consolidation against Russian terror.
    Article: 7 killed, Yuppie: ALMOST 100 KILLED!!!11! (Well....if you count the 90 injured maybe.)

  3. #33963
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Article: 7 killed, Yuppie: ALMOST 100 KILLED!!!11! (Well....if you count the 90 injured maybe.)
    that equals 100 death people for Yuppie....

  4. #33964
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    This is pretty stupid...

    Brawling with Grenadelaunchers
    That is so on brand for Russia

  5. #33965
    Yeah that article is just wrong. russia does not have air superiority - they are too scared to enter Ukrainian air space and instead stay well behind the lines to conduct stand off attacks.

    And the f16s won't be contesting russian aircraft like the article suggest either. Air to air combat is pretty much non existent as there is just too much air defence on the ground for planes to get close to each other.

    The point of f16s is to replace Ukrainian losses and transition them to Western aircraft, not contest russian planes.

    Speaking of russian planes, some careless person dropped a drone on a russian airfield near St petersburg which houses tu-22s, russias strategic bombers which keep launching missiles at civilians. Reports are 1 or 2 nay have been damaged while the rest fled to murmansk.

  6. #33966
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post

    Speaking of russian planes, some careless person dropped a drone on a russian airfield near St petersburg which houses tu-22s, russias strategic bombers which keep launching missiles at civilians. Reports are 1 or 2 nay have been damaged while the rest fled to murmansk.
    The Russian version of this incident was hilarious.

    "Ukraine tried to attack Russian airbase with drones but all the drones were intercepted. Some debris fell onto the airfield and one plane was damaged by the ensuing fire."

  7. #33967
    Pretty much word for word what they say about every drone strike.

  8. #33968
    Hmm... Interesting that the idea of freezing the border seems to have reappeared in Russia, as the best Russia can hope for, at about the same time it appeared here.

    (“Vostok” Battalion commander Alexander) Khodakovsky concluded that Russia will likely have to come to a “truce” and that Russia may enter a phase “of neither peace nor war” with Ukraine.
    Khodakovsky suggested that Ukraine would be sufficiently weakened in this state of frozen conflict and that Russia would be able to exert more influence over Ukraine in such a situation than it currently can during the ”Special Military Operation.”
    https://www.kyivpost.com/post/20671
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nflict-updates (under August 17th).

  9. #33969
    Stood in the Fire Mazza's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    the land of beer, chocolate and waffles
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Hmm... Interesting that the idea of freezing the border seems to have reappeared in Russia, as the best Russia can hope for, at about the same time it appeared here.



    https://www.kyivpost.com/post/20671
    https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...nflict-updates (under August 17th).
    It's irrelevant. Russia has been trying to call for a time out for a while now and the only way they are going to get it is if they agree to Ukraine's terms, something Putin is not willing to do.

  10. #33970
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    25,868
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    It's irrelevant. Russia has been trying to call for a time out for a while now and the only way they are going to get it is if they agree to Ukraine's terms, something Putin is not willing to do.
    And Russia's idea of a "time out" is so that they can basically say "alright, so we keep what we have so far, you stop attacking us or trying to take anything back, but no, you can't enter into any alliances 'cuz we didn't technically 'make peace,' alright?" all to be broken at Russia's convenience.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #33971
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    It's irrelevant.
    In terms of what will actually happen: yes.

    However, it is relevant in terms of Russia's self-perceived strength - you don't push the idea of a frozen conflict when you think you can win.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    Russia has been trying to call for a time out for a while now and the only way they are going to get it is if they agree to Ukraine's terms, something Putin is not willing to do.
    ISW makes a point that the narrative of a frozen conflict was pushed by Prig and then wasn't pushed after his mutiny.
    Note that a frozen conflict is the term for when the fighting more or less stops - without a peace treaty (sometimes even without a formal cease-fire).

  12. #33972
    Roundup of news of the day, (week)

    Ukrainian Cluster Shells Massacred Russian Troops Fleeing Urozhaine

    It was all but inevitable that the Russian garrison in occupied Urozhaine would fall. Advancing in a pulse of rapid assaults since early June, a powerful division-size Ukrainian force—including all four Ukrainian marine corps brigades—had flanked Urozhaine, a tiny settlement with a few hundred structures arrayed along three parallel north-south roads in southern Ukraine’s Donetsk Oblast.

    By advancing east and west of Urozhaine, a key Russian strongpoint in a chain of them leading south toward occupied Mariupol, 50 miles away on the Black Sea coast, the Ukrainians left the increasingly desperate Russian garrison—including elements of the 37th Motor Rifle Brigade—just one way out of Urozhaine: the T0518 road, threading south into neighboring Zavitne Bazhannya and Staromlynivka.

    “The recapture of neighboring Urozhaine was only a matter of time,” the independent Conflict Intelligence Team wrote. And when the depleted Russian garrison fully or partially retreated on Saturday or Sunday, it did so on foot and in broad daylight along the open road and the fields abutting it.
    Ukrainian drones watched from overhead. And Ukrainian artillery batteries took aim. What followed was a bloodbath.
    Drone crashes into Russian railway station, leaving 5 injured

    A Ukrainian drone crashed into the roof of a railway station in the western Russian city of Kursk early Sunday morning, injuring five people and causing damage to the building, according to the regional governor.

    Russia’s Kursk region borders Ukraine and has seen previous apparent Ukrainian attacks.

    One of the station’s platforms has been temporarily closed; however, passengers are still able to board and depart trains on two other platforms in the station, governor Roman Starovoyt said in an update on Telegram.

    The roof and facade were also affected and there was damage to a waiting room and pedestrian tunnel, he added.
    Russia-Ukraine war: Nato chief says only Kyiv can decide conditions for peace talks after territory row

    Nato chief rebuffs official's earlier remarks: 'Only Ukrainians can decide conditions for negotiations'
    It is up to Ukraine to decide when the conditions are right to join any negotiations after the Russian invasion, the Nato secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, said on Thursday, emphasising the alliance’s unchanged stance after comments this week by a senior colleague, Reuters reports.

    “It is the Ukrainians, and only the Ukrainians, who can decide when there are conditions in place for negotiations, and who can decide at the negotiating table what is an acceptable solution,” Stoltenberg said.

    Speaking at a conference in the Norwegian town of Arendal, he added that Nato’s role was to support Ukraine.

    The statement followed remarks by Stoltenberg’s chief of staff at Nato, Stian Jenssen, who on Tuesday said Ukraine may in the end give up territory to Russia as part of a deal to end the war. Jenssen subsequently said he regretted his comments.
    Netherlands says US has approved delivery of F-16s to Ukraine

    The United States has given its approval for the Netherlands to deliver F-16s to Ukraine, the Dutch defence minister said on Friday, in a major gain for Kyiv even though the fighter jets will not have an immediate impact on the almost 18-month war.

    “I welcome the US decision to clear the way for delivery of F-16 jets to Ukraine. It allows us to follow through on the training of Ukrainian pilots,” Dutch Defense Minister Kajsa Ollongren said in a message on the social platform X, formerly known as Twitter. “We remain in close contact with European partners to decide on the next steps.”

    Ukraine has long pleaded for the sophisticated fighter to give it a combat edge. It recently launched a long-anticipated counteroffensive against the Kremlin’s forces without air cover, placing its troops at the mercy of Russian aviation and artillery.

    Apart from delivering the warplanes, Ukraine’s allies also need to train its pilots. Washington says the F-16s, like the advanced US Abrams tanks, will be crucial in the long term as Kyiv faces down Russia.
    I think I heard that the pilot training has already started.

  13. #33973
    Stood in the Fire Mazza's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    the land of beer, chocolate and waffles
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    In terms of what will actually happen: yes.

    However, it is relevant in terms of Russia's self-perceived strength - you don't push the idea of a frozen conflict when you think you can win.


    ISW makes a point that the narrative of a frozen conflict was pushed by Prig and then wasn't pushed after his mutiny.
    Note that a frozen conflict is the term for when the fighting more or less stops - without a peace treaty (sometimes even without a formal cease-fire).
    That might all be true, but that still cannot happen without Ukraine going along with it. And I do not believe they will.

  14. #33974
    Reportedly Ukraine are also starting to train on Swedish Grippens.

    And in hilarious news, russia's attempt to land a spacecraft on the moon has ended in failure after it crashed.

  15. #33975
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    In terms of what will actually happen: yes.

    However, it is relevant in terms of Russia's self-perceived strength - you don't push the idea of a frozen conflict when you think you can win.


    ISW makes a point that the narrative of a frozen conflict was pushed by Prig and then wasn't pushed after his mutiny.
    Note that a frozen conflict is the term for when the fighting more or less stops - without a peace treaty (sometimes even without a formal cease-fire).
    """""Frozen conflict""""" with Russia means that Russia expects Ukraine to stop advancing and Russia keeps shelling Ukrainian positions.

  16. #33976
    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    I think I heard that the pilot training has already started.
    Yes, training has already started in Denmark, and along with the Netherlands Denmark have confirmed today that they will also donate F16's.

    There will also be training in Romania.

  17. #33977
    When russia said a tu-22 was damaged, what they meant was this.


  18. #33978
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    8,926
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    When russia said a tu-22 was damaged, what they meant was this.
    Emotional damage?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  19. #33979
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazza View Post
    That might all be true, but that still cannot happen without Ukraine going along with it. And I do not believe they will.
    True (based on the geography; there's nothing similar to the strait between China and Taiwan).

    However, my point was that Russians and some others re-started talks about frozen conflict about 3 days ago - which both seems more than a coincidence, and also indicated that even Russians don't think they can achieve more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    I think I heard that the pilot training has already started.
    Note that isn't just pilot training, but also training of ground crews and maintenance personnel.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/0...ining-00106433

    (I would say that when Lt. Gen. Douglas Sims, told reporters Thursday that the situation on the frontlines in Ukraine is currently “not ideal” for the use of F-16s. "The Russians still possess some air defense capability." it was somewhat of an understatement, but as he noted things may change.)

  20. #33980
    From what I read, contrary to what Zelesky is asking for, I don't really see how the jets will help all that much right now. Both are currently using their air power from far behind the front lines to launch air to surface cruise missiles. I think the Russians are still pretty scared of the Ukrainian MANPADS. Russia has lost alot of helicopters to them already.
    I imagine once again hes asking everyone for them for the future, when the current conflict is over, they will have an airforce better trained and better equipped than many countries on the border with Russian.

    What they really seem to need is those American long range surface to surface missiles to hit those ammo dumps and command centers that are just out of reach.

    And in hilarious news, russia's attempt to land a spacecraft on the moon has ended in failure after it crashed.
    I got a chuckle out of this one, apparently the flight was delayed for over 2 years, since after the invasion, the EU space agency stopped helping the Ruskies with equipment, which it had planned to do beforehand. In a truly take-my-ball-and-go-home move, Russia said fine, we will do it without any help, but we wont share any of our scientific research we will discover.
    Well, turns out in the end, they did end up sharing with the entire world, how to perfectly crash a lander into the moon.
    Last edited by alach; 2023-08-20 at 05:03 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •