1. #34181
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Btw, has anyone noticed that this thread doesn't appear in Politics anymore? I only ever see it via Gen-OT and the most recent thread posted in the Politics sub-forum, but if I go into the Politics sub-forum, this thread doesn't exist...? I just have to click on this thread directly from Gen-OT if it's up as the latest Politics thread.

  2. #34182
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then which is the right religion?
    Not being able to discern which one is the right doesn't mean that you can't discern which is wrong, moron.

    If I held a belief that all Russians should be glassed with nukes, would you say my belief is valid?

  3. #34183
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    But that's a social political 'Right' in the eyes of that particular perspective. It is not a 'right' answer, it is merely causal to the agreements that were made at that time, between the leaderships at that time. It is not a universal application of belief.

    As I continue to say, there is no right answer, there should be no right answer. It is a matter of different perspectives and beliefs on the matter, that is all.

    How we should recognize this as being universally right? We shouldn't. We should recognize the situation is complex beyond a simple right or wrong answer.

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    Then which is the right religion?
    Well then if there's no right answer, I suppose America belongs to the British because it used to. And surely you can find some people in Britain who actually believe that, thus America being a sovereign State rather than a colony is not a "universal application of belief" and everyone should just accept that nothing is true and everything is permitted.

    This isn't wisdom, it's trite contrarianism.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  4. #34184
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Israel's genocide isn't extremist. It's state-sponsored and funded by American taxpayers because we value the tactical benefits of a "strategic ally" in the middle east over the condemnation of human rights violations. (Oh, and it's anti-Semitic to even imply they don't have a right to do what they're doing.) By turning a blind eye to it, you're letting them continue doing what they're doing.
    I never said they didn't have a right to defend themselves either. But what you're talking about is also a different matter stemming from a different set of beliefs.

    What you're still talking about is cultural/actual genocide, not merely core beliefs in territory that is currently in dispute. I'm not interested in having the goalpost shifted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Well then if there's no right answer, I suppose America belongs to the British because it used to. And surely you can find some people in Britain who actually believe that, thus America being a sovereign State rather than a colony is not a "universal application of belief" and everyone should just accept that nothing is true and everything is permitted.

    This isn't wisdom, it's trite contrarianism.
    So you're going to ignore the Native Americans who held claim to the territory before the British too?

    Again, it's not a simple matter of 'Right', because your example of British rule isn't 'Right' either. If I am saying there is no right and wrong and you're twisting that to say 'Well that means you're saying British rule was Right' then you missed the whole fucking point didn't you?

    Native Americans, British Imperialsts and American Colonists have all laid claim to US at one point in time or another. There is no singular right answer as to who has absolute 'rightful' ownership of the land, because it is ultimately subjectively defined. The only thing outside of that is international recognition; which is still a wavy definition considering it is also prone to social biases, and is in the end also subjectively defined. Like whether Taiwan is an actual country, or a state, is still highly debated even today. There is no 'Right' answer.

    Well then if there's no right answer, I suppose America belongs to the British because it used to
    If there's no right answer then you shouldn't be supposing any right answer, smart guy.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-08-24 at 08:36 PM.

  5. #34185
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Btw, has anyone noticed that this thread doesn't appear in Politics anymore? I only ever see it via Gen-OT and the most recent thread posted in the Politics sub-forum, but if I go into the Politics sub-forum, this thread doesn't exist...? I just have to click on this thread directly from Gen-OT if it's up as the latest Politics thread.
    You might need to check to see if you're having issues with the forums as a whole. I'm still seeing it in the Politics sub forum.

  6. #34186
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    I never said they didn't have a right to defend themselves either. But what you're talking about is also a different matter stemming from a different set of beliefs.

    What you're still talking about is cultural/actual genocide, not merely core beliefs in territory that is currently in dispute. I'm not interested in having the goalpost shifted.
    ...uh, what? I've read this post a couple times and I really don't know what you're trying to say here. At best, you're tacitly fine with genocide and at worst you want to ignore the genocide part so you can make an argument for whether the beliefs which excuse genocide are moral...? I think? I don't know. I really don't want to engage much more in this because you seem woefully out-of-touch and want to debate some weird form of enlightened centrism you've developed instead of what's actually happening in these countries.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2023-08-24 at 08:34 PM.

  7. #34187
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Btw, has anyone noticed that this thread doesn't appear in Politics anymore? I only ever see it via Gen-OT and the most recent thread posted in the Politics sub-forum, but if I go into the Politics sub-forum, this thread doesn't exist...? I just have to click on this thread directly from Gen-OT if it's up as the latest Politics thread.
    Appears just fine for me. Unless you put Yuppie to ignore.

  8. #34188
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    ...uh, what? I've read this post a couple times and I really don't know what you're trying to say here. At best, you're tacitly fine with genocide and at worst you want to ignore the genocide part so you can make an argument for whether the beliefs which excuse genocide are moral...? I think? I don't know. I really don't want to engage much more in this because you seem woefully out-of-touch and want to debate some weird form enlightened centrism you've developed instead of what's actually happening in these countries.
    Genocide is acted upon, not inherent in beliefs of territorial belief that I'm discussing here. I'm talking territory disputes, and using Israel/Palestine as an example of such. Yes, there is more nuance to those conflicts, which involve religious extremism and potential cultural/actual genocide, but that's not what I'm talking about when I used the example. If this is the point of contention and confusion, then I will merely say it is a 'bad example for lack of examples specific to the Ukraine/Russia conflict'.

    I have also made an example that there are those who believe Taiwan belongs to China. Their belief is in the territory and unification of the people. That inherent belief does not equate to 'genocide', it would have to be acted upon. Same can be said of those who wanted India to regain its independence, and there was certainly high tension that involved riots and violent action during that time.

  9. #34189

  10. #34190
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post


    So you're going to ignore the Native Americans who held claim to the territory before the British too?

    Again, it's not a simple matter of 'Right', because your example of British rule isn't 'Right' either. If I am saying there is no right and wrong and you're twisting that to say 'Well that means you're saying British rule was Right' then you missed the whole fucking point didn't you?



    If there's no right answer then you shouldn't be supposing any right answer, smart guy.
    It belongs to the Natives and the British and the French and bits of it belong to the Spanish as well or perhaps the Mexicans, who also perhaps belong to the Spanish now that one thinks of it. Of course it also belongs to the Americans, since there's no right or wrong and everything is both true and false and it's all just perspective and a sovereign nation's territorial integrity doesn't matter.

    Or maybe this is a completely useless argument that I dismissed because the actual causes of the invasion are practical, and not moral at all. But who knows, after all there's no right or wrong.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  11. #34191
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Well, obviously you and everyone else here does, because his actions are a result of what he's (projected as) thinking what Ukraine is.

    The whole reason anyone is in this thread is because of his thoughts being manifested. We all care about his thoughts, because his thoughts become actions, and his actions are dangerous.
    And Hitler thought that the Jews were a subhuman race that deserved to be eliminated. “Why” he thought that doesn’t change a single iota about why the holocaust was an atrocity. His belief that the aryans were the superior race does not “justify” his invasion of Europe. The holocaust was wrong and invading Europe was wrong. Why Hitler did it is immaterial to those things being wrong.

    And personally no, I don’t care about why Putin thinks anything. He is an invader, plain and simple, who deserves to be beaten back and have his country reminded of its proper place in the world.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2023-08-24 at 08:47 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  12. #34192
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Genocide is acted upon, not inherent in beliefs of territorial belief that I'm discussing here. I'm talking territory disputes, and using Israel/Palestine as an example of such. Yes, there is more nuance to those conflicts, which involve religious extremism and potential cultural/actual genocide, but that's not what I'm talking about when I used the example. If this is the point of contention and confusion, then I will merely say it is a 'bad example for lack of examples specific to the Ukraine/Russia conflict'.

    I have also made an example that there are those who believe Taiwan belongs to China. Their belief is in the territory and unification of the people. That inherent belief does not equate to 'genocide', it would have to be acted upon. Same can be said of those who wanted India to regain its independence, and there was certainly high tension that involved riots and violent action during that time.
    I guess I'm just bewildered by your insistence on separating actions from beliefs. What do you gain by insisting such a distinction is necessary?

  13. #34193
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    I mean, they are, at face value, not wrong. We ALL were baffled by it. Doubly so as he's a part of a close circle of the putin fans. (well used to be)

  14. #34194
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    And Hitler thought that the Jews were a subhuman race that deserved to be eliminated. “Why” he thought that doesn’t change a single iota abput why the holocaust was an atrocity.
    Godwin's law in action here, folks.

  15. #34195
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Godwin's law in action here, folks.
    Godwin's law does not apply if the comparison is apt.

  16. #34196
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Godwin's law in action here, folks.
    This is your answer to his argument?
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #34197
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    I guess I'm just bewildered by your insistence on separating actions from beliefs. What do you gain by insisting such a distinction is necessary?
    That beliefs shouldn't be inherently discriminated against because they are being represented by wrongful action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    This is your answer to his argument?
    Yes, because I am not talking about the holocaust nor have I made any assertion to defending genocidal beliefs by discussing beliefs concerning territorial disputes.

    Ultimately, any discussion can (irrationally) involve comparisons to the holocaust if it progresses far enough. Hell, liking Pineapple on Pizza can be compared to Hitler gassing Jews, it doesn't make it a legitimate point of discussion.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2023-08-24 at 08:56 PM.

  18. #34198
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    I mean, they are, at face value, not wrong. We ALL were baffled by it. Doubly so as he's a part of a close circle of the putin fans. (well used to be)
    At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Prig wasn't on the plane and turns up a week or so from now calling out Putin's assassination attempt.

  19. #34199
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Btw, has anyone noticed that this thread doesn't appear in Politics anymore? I only ever see it via Gen-OT and the most recent thread posted in the Politics sub-forum, but if I go into the Politics sub-forum, this thread doesn't exist...? I just have to click on this thread directly from Gen-OT if it's up as the latest Politics thread.
    Do you have Yuppie on ignore? Threads by users you have on ignore don't show in the subforums

  20. #34200
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Godwin's law in action here, folks.
    We are at page 1714, talking about the war in Ukraine. Care to make a guess if it has been mentioned before?

    Also, I'd like to point out that triggering the law is not a bad thing. It just is, so pointing it out is rather meaningless.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

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