Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Kralljin]

We all saw what happened to people who protested. They are gone.
You saw the police and how they took them away for simply holding a blank card into a camera.
You also know what happens to people who talk about this shitshow

If people don't want to rise against an authoritarian government out of self preservation, that's one thing but the historical consensus towards these people remains negative.

The crux frankly is, the die was cast decades ago when most Russians went along as their country slipped back into authoritarianism and did little.
The unspoken contract was seemingly that the government gets to do what it wants as long as it doesn't rock the boat too hard, that contract frankly now blows into their faces.

That's just the reality, the Russian people fucked up when they let someone stay in power too long and at this point the solution is simply not an easy one.

[Elder Millennial]

You shouldn't villainize a helpless population.

Can we not pretend the general Russian public isn't complicit?

How much enabling, how much of them trolling everything on the internet, how much of them attacking Ukrainians even in third countries will it take for people to get it through their thick skulls, THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE ARE COMPLICIT.

Sure, there are millions of Russians inside and outside Russia who aren't. And that's why I don't believe in these policies of denying Russians refugee status.

But I'm done coddling the general Russian public.

I mean for God's sake Russians literally killed other Russians and almost overthrew their own government not because their government was engaged in a genocidal war, but because they thought they weren't genocidal enough. More Russians were willing to march on Moscow for "Do more war" than for "No war".

Enough is enough.

Russia proper should absolutely be hit with every sanction under the sun and yes, that should absolutely include restricting access to Western hosted game servers, among other things.

And companies like Burger King for example should be sanctioned for still fucking doing business in Russia. I mean sure, they are the bottom of the barrel of fast food chains, but still.

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We all saw what happened to people who protested. They are gone.
You saw the police and how they took them away for simply holding a blank card into a camera.
You also know what happens to people who talk about this shitshow.

All that happened BECAUSE so few Russians bothered to protest. Literally a few hundred people across the whole country. Most of them either shrugged and said "don't care" or way more commonly went -Yeah daddy Putin! Fuck em up! I'll go to Crimea for my summer holidays! And go on the internet and call Ukrainians slurs and tell my hubby fighting there to rape some Ukrainian women and bring me a new washing machine.

Yeah. After the last 2 years of Russians being Russians, I'm done with the "Poor oppressed Russian" sob story. Not buying it anymore.

[Shadowferal]

Can we not pretend the general Russian public isn't complicit?

Can you stop pretending to know what living in such a country is like?
I'm reminded of my old neighborhood "Drug Alley." And older guy "Charles" wanted to something...anything to get the "drugs and thugs" out. And he found out the hard way that he was alone. And "we" already knew you "leave it alone and are left alone."

[KrayZ33]

Dunno. I still disagree.
There are (attempted) arson attacks every week against goverment buildings/recruitment offices etc.

And I don't like the idea of spinning "inaction" to "complicity", especially when we, as the rich west, aren't even able to actually sanction Russia into nothingness because we aren't willing to sacrifice anything.
We should also condemn India and everyone else that provide Russia with what it needs, yet we don't. Again we aren't willing to do anything.
So doesn't that mean we are complicit as well? After all, that's what "inaction" means.
We also have rallies that shout "stop supporting the Ukraine" and what not, which is basically screaming "let Russia have its way, so I can live in peace, if it doesn't affect me, I'm fine with it"
The exact same thing is what the normal russian population is doing "let me live in peace, as long as it doesn't affect me.... "

[Shadowferal]

Well, there are a number of Russian dissidents fighting alongside Ukrainian soldiers...

[Santti]

Can you stop pretending to know what living in such a country is like?

Well then, maybe they ought to do something about that? It's not going to get any better if you let the oligarchs pillage the country. It's going to get much worse in Russia, as this war continues.

[Shadowferal]

Well then, maybe they ought to do something about that? It's not going to get any better if you let the oligarchs pillage the country. It's going to get much worse in Russia, as this war continues.

Say "hi" to China for me.

...and Pakistan, and North Korea, and Libya, and..et al

[Relapses]

Daily reminder that it is not Russia simping to believe that not every Russian citizen is turbo Hitler.

[YUPPIE]

Russia can't just admit defeat and go back into their hole since their fate is to suffer the consequences of their actions in Ukraine *for this foreseeable lifetime.*

Said consequences are becoming North Korea 2.0.

[Deus Mortis]

Literally a few hundred people across the whole country.

You might want to update your numbers. The numbers below are nearly a year and a half old too.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/07/10849...ore-protesters

Russia arrests nearly 5,000 anti-war protesters over the weekend

It says more than 13,000 Russians in 147 cities have been detained at anti-war rallies since Russia first invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24.

From Sep
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...-mobilization/

Russia has made at least 16,437 arrests related to antiwar protests in the first six months of the war, according to OVD-Info, and at least 224 people have become defendants in criminal antiwar cases, it said.

Edit:
https://en.ovdinfo.org/wartime-repre...rt-july-2023#1

[Gabriel]

I’m not villainizing, but I disagree with the “helpless” part.

Will protesting or even overthrowing the government be a victimless act? Absolutely not. But history shows that given the motivation, people will rise.

After a year and a half of this senseless war, how about we stop babying people and start considering some personal responsibility.

9 and half years*

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You might want to update your numbers. The numbers below are nearly a year and a half old too.
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/07/10849...ore-protesters


From Sep
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...-mobilization/

Edit:
https://en.ovdinfo.org/wartime-repre...rt-july-2023#1

Do you know what you do when you know you get arrested if you go and protest out in the open? You car bomb government buildings.

[Veggie50]

9 and half years*

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Do you know what you do when you know you get arrested if you go and protest out in the open? You car bomb government buildings.

Exactly.

“It is what it is” only works so long.

Ideally Russians would rise up because this war is morally wrong. I’ll settle for them rising up because Putins course is directly threatening their lives.

Also, ironically, 20k protesters over more than a 100 cities amounts to a couple hundred per city.

[Deus Mortis]

Also, ironically, 20k protesters over more than a 100 cities amounts to a couple hundred per city.

My last link actually shows where everyone arrested is from. 9057 from Moscow, and 5460 from St. Petersburg are the two main ones.

[alach]

Someone left a minature sledgehammer at Prigozhin's memorial. Take that as you like.

I also get confused why I see russians in the battlegrounds, though it has been a few months now.
Anyways, good news, Hienkenen finally left russian, and sold all their assets there for 1 dollar.
So those of you who have been boycotting their beer because of that can stop now. Those of you boycotting it because, you know, its just not that great of a beer, can continue.

[Corvus]

My last link actually shows where everyone arrested is from. 9057 from Moscow, and 5460 from St. Petersburg are the two main ones.

The population of the city of Moscow is 13 million. When counting the metropolitan area, it comes to 21.5 million, or 1/6th of russia's population. 9k out of that is a pitiful small amount.

[Elder Millennial]

sip

Let's do the math on that, shall we?

13000/147 comes out at what? About 88.45? Imagine...a whole 88 people per city were arrested for protesting?

Also that 19k number for detentions...is that INDIVIDUALS detained or DETENTIONS? How many of those are repeat detentions of the occasional actual Russian with a conscience? How many of those detentions are the type of distentions where someone raised a fuss not because they oppose the war per say, but because they lost a family member or because they just don't want to be drafted?

This in a country of 140 million? Spare me. There's no real opposition to the war in Russia.



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The population of the city of Moscow is 13 million. When counting the metropolitan area, it comes to 21.5 million, or 1/6th of russia's population. 9k out of that is a pitiful small amount.

That's what I was pointing out.

It's relatively easy to instantly detain or identify and bag a few hundred protesters per protest. A fuck ton harder when 200k-500k people show up at a protest. The Russians literally just could copy paste ANTIFA Black Bloc tactics which were specifically designed to protest anonymously in a surveillance environment and to make individual detentions as hard as possible. It worked for the Ukrainians at Maidan.

Yeah, I'm not buying the whole "sad oppressed Russian" bull. The most I'm willing to give them is "moral bankrupt sad apathetic Russian" who will sit and watch that rape and murder of a child (I'm not being hyperbolic here. Russian social media is flooded with that shit, and it's something that Russian propagandists openly advocate for on national television) and not do anything about it because "it's not my business". If that is not a form a complicity, I don't know what is.

[Iphie]

The population of the city of Moscow is 13 million. When counting the metropolitan area, it comes to 21.5 million, or 1/6th of russia's population. 9k out of that is a pitiful small amount.

Myeah, but do take to account that only St. Petersburg and Moscow count for anything, 10.000 people in Bumfuck, Bumfuckistan, will have less impact than 1000 in Moscow as far as poot-poot is concerned.

[Mayhem]

Because people want to escape reality and just play games for the fun of it, no politics involved? And do you think that restricting access to games will make those gamers step onto the streets and start revolution or smthing? I really hope gaming world would simply stay away from all that nonsense, but some gaming companies think otherwise.

well, escaping the reality of what their country does certainly will not do anything to change what their country does so yeah maybe some would start to understand that the actions of their country have consequences for its people

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The exact same thing is what the normal russian population is doing "let me live in peace, as long as it doesn't affect me.... "

right, and we want that it affects them..

[Rasulis]

Looks like the embassy of Russia in South Africa has posted a map.

A map of BRICS in a multipolar world...Where Crimea and all the rest of Ukraine proper Russia tries to claim for itself...belong to Ukraine.

Oops.

That map is joke. Two of the biggest members don't trust each other.

India MP Threatens 'Surgical Strike' on China for Annexing Territory on Map


NATO members may bicker incessantly, but I can't remember the last time one threatened another member with military strike.

SA and Iran relationship may be improving now. At least until Yemeni rebels attack one of SA oil facilities.

[YUPPIE]

For those of you saying Russian citizens should revolt against Putin

0) You only live once.

1) You have to be generally of amazing intellect to instigate a successful rebellion; you also have to be incredibly charismatic to rally your cause. Simply being a part of a mob and not being the leader of such a movement will likely mean you'll die for the cause as a "mook."

2) Your opponent is Vladimir Putin, a former KGB spy. A spy over 70 that runs the largest and most sophisticated criminal enterprise on the planet masquerading as a country. You also have to go through his security and intelligence agencies, which are generally the best in the world where his military might seem laughable.

3) Your opponent is known for Mexican Cartel-esque brutality on dissidents. That's what may await you on failure, not a swift death, even if you're not the head of the movement.

4) Toppling Putin will not remove sanctions or economic pressure. Your enemies are now the entire West and their allies, your "allies" in China attempting to seize control of the situation, and the fallout encampments of those with debts or loyalty to Putin. Can you pressure the weight of controlling a country now falling all around you? You need a plan. I don't think 99% of humans have the born will to do this, and the 1% succumb to the reality of politics and, in turn, become dictators themselves.

Summarized: Rebelling is not just something you do with mere protesting on the streets. Iran quelled their recent unrest by literally killing everyone that tried. Don't assume it's so easy or simple.