Russian invasion of Ukraine

[The Stormbringer]

Well, yes, but having a to d will make e much easier, it's that not getting shot at thing you know? Organising and executing such a march takes coordination and I think that's another thing that's lacking.

Yeah, sadly it doesn't happen like in media where you see one person walking, and then a group of people join them, and soon it's trickles of people from every building they pass, and before you know it there's a giant crowd filling the street.

[Canpinter]

Can we not create an expectation of mass spontaneous rebellion because you saw it in a movie/read it in a graphic novel.

[Saradain]

Well, yes, but having a to d will make e much easier, it's that not getting shot at thing you know? Organising and executing such a march takes coordination and I think that's another thing that's lacking.

Well until they start doing shit, they're enabling the war via inaction. They have the best way of ending this all which doesn't involve NATO entering russian soil. I really don't feel any pity towards russians, even if a drone or ten kills their civilians at this point. Just block eyes and ears and pretend nothing is going on and deny everything.

They only got 1 life, but ukrainian civilians have zero left for all those who already died. And one life for the ones still living, which have far higher chance of losing them because russians act like fucking bots, incapable of demonstrating that a genocide is wrong and just agreeing that Ukraine needs to die.

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Can we not create an expectation of mass spontaneous rebellion because you saw it in a movie/read it in a graphic novel.

Yeah, I agree my example was lacking, but what else then? Russians civilians can just afford to ignore everything?

[Gorsameth]

I can understand Russians not willing to inflict harm on themselves by openly protesting.
I wouldn't do it either if I were in their position.

But as a consequence they will get judged by everyone else and that is a choice they are making and they will have to live with that.

[Gabriel]

Can we not create an expectation of mass spontaneous rebellion because you saw it in a movie/read it in a graphic novel.

You are right. We should all just expect the Russian government to go away on its own after they have killed enough Ukrainians.

[Canpinter]

Yeah, I agree my example was lacking, but what else then? Russians civilians can just afford to ignore everything?

Kings, dictators, dear leaders and presidents for life maintain power by keeping a relatively small class of powerful/wealthy people happy. These are your aristocrats, regional warlords, religious leaders, and large business owners. These are who you need to go after hard with either carrot or stick if you want change to actually happen.

Convince enough of those people that they will get a better deal with new leadership and you will be shocked how fast a revolution is permitted to happen.

Hell of you want stick with the V plot, the revolution only works because he gets the secret police to turn on the dictator/military leadership.

[Saradain]

Kings, dictators, dear leaders and presidents for life maintain power by keeping a relatively small class of powerful/wealthy people happy. These are your aristocrats, regional warlords, religious leaders, and large business owners. These are who you need to go after hard with either carrot or stick if you want change to actually happen.

Convince enough of those people that they will get a better deal with new leadership and you will be shocked how fast a revolution is permitted to happen.

Not choking the life out of russian economy and allowing the rich oligarchs remain rich is not enough? I suppose that's just a stick...But at this point, can you say the said elite do not see the effects Putin's egomaniacal genocide has caused to their country and personally them?

[Canpinter]

Not choking the life out of russian economy and allowing the rich oligarchs remain rich is not enough? I suppose that's just a stick...But at this point, can you say the said elite do not see the effects Putin's egomaniacal genocide has caused to their country and personally them?

Oh it definitely has hurt them and some of them have definitely turned on Putin to varying degrees, prig being the most open and obvious. Keep the pressure on them while making it clear their best long term option is ditching Putin. I guarantee there is a lot more happening behind closed doors then we know about and if Putin falls it will be sudden.

[Saradain]

Oh it definitely has hurt them and some of them have definitely turned on Putin to varying degrees, prig being the most open and obvious. Keep the pressure on them while making it clear their best long term option is ditching Putin. I guarantee there is a lot more happening behind closed doors then we know about and if Putin falls it will be sudden.

Aye, that is certain. Just don't like letting russian civilians getting the pass on all this. Stereotypically they are obnoxious people to begin with, with little regard to concepts like sovereignty of others...And the possibility of this war ending without the best possible ending (Ukraine getting everything back, including Crimea) is quite infuriating when you think the russian people will continue to be like they are as if they had nothing to do with the genocide.

Thankfully the behind the scene stuff also happens on the battlefields, or at least I notice some things seem to arrive to mainstream media with slight delay (like Robotyne's liberation) compared to places where ukrainians blog-post about the happenings. So here's hoping the judgement day arrives faster so russian imperialism can be ended for once and for all.

[Relapses]

Aye, that is certain. Just don't like letting russian civilians getting the pass on all this. Stereotypically they are obnoxious people to begin with, with little regard to concepts like sovereignty of others...

What does vilifying the Russian populace achieve? I get that it makes broader anti-Russian statements easier to make... but outside of that, I really don't see the benefit of universally condemning an entire population due to the actions of its authoritarian government.

[Saradain]

What does vilifying the Russian populace achieve? I get that it makes broader anti-Russian statements easier to make but I really don't see the benefit of universally condemning an entire population because of the actions of an authoritarian government outside of that.

...Because the said population does not need vilifying. They already are not against the war by vast majority. And two can play the same game - soviets once said all germans are responsible for their authoritarian goverment doing nasty things. And the world still hunts anyone associated, were they forced to do horrible shit or not back then. Call that whataboutism if you will, but I see no reason to not offer same treatment back to them.

I don't need to vilify an already vile population in support of the genocide.

[Breccia]

Kremlin says Prigozhin crashed his plane on purpose. "They probably filled their fuel tanks with food poisoning and threw it out a window," they clarified. "Trust us, we know a thing or two about planes crashing with people who disagreed with Putin on them, and it's always turned out they were really really sorry just before impact."

[Makabreska]

What does vilifying the Russian populace achieve? I get that it makes broader anti-Russian statements easier to make... but outside of that, I really don't see the benefit of universally condemning an entire population due to the actions of its authoritarian government.

Said population is either supporting the war, or indifferent to it. What were Putins ratings? Where are protests against the killings and destructions? Poor ruskies just wanted to go on a vaycay to a lovely and newly acquired territory of Crimea, and these rockets spoiled all the fun. The only Russian protests I saw (beside those few when war started), was a border rush to evade draft.

What do we achieve by it? We make sure they wont feel too comfortable when they want to pretend everything is fine when dealign with us.

[Shadowferal]

What does vilifying the Russian populace achieve? I get that it makes broader anti-Russian statements easier to make... but outside of that, I really don't see the benefit of universally condemning an entire population due to the actions of its authoritarian government.

Sets things up rather nicely to blame the civilians of other countries for their respective governments....like the North Koreans and Chinese...

[Soulwind]

Sets things up rather nicely to blame the civilians of other countries for their respective governments....like the North Koreans and Chinese...

Or the germans, or the japanese, or the vietnamese, or even americans. Most countries have or have had governments that have done things ranging from wrong to horrible.

I don't think it's a good standard to say that civilians who don't risk their lives to put an end to it deserve the same judgement and punishment as those actively making those decisions. One is only responsible for their own actions, period.

If an iranian girl who is fighting for her rights wants to call me a coward, or say that my position is one of weakness, she's earned the right to do so. Some Internet warrior whose biggest challenge in life has been getting through highschool doesn't quite get that privilege.

[Relapses]

Because said population is either supporting the war, or indifferent to it. What were Putins ratings? Where are protests against the killing? The only Russian protests I saw (beside those few when war started), was a border rush to evade draft.

Approval ratings can easily be doctored, protests are less likely to happen when the alternative is going to jail, sometimes it's incredibly difficult to leave a country even when you're ideologically opposed to the actions of the government... the list goes on and on. Mind you, this isn't a defense of Russia or its actions, just a personal irritation of mine. Generalizing of any kind should be discouraged, especially the kind of generalization which leads blatant reactionary rhetoric. It's like there are only two possible positions you can have in echo chambers like this: All Russians are terrible and deserve to be glassed or you're a Russian sycophant posting pro-Russia agitprop.

[Saradain]

Or the germans, or the japanese, or the vietnamese, or even americans. Most countries have or have had governments that have done things ranging from wrong to horrible.

I don't think it's a good standard to say that civilians who don't risk their lives to put an end to it deserve the same judgement and punishment as those actively making those decisions. One is only responsible for their own actions, period.

If an iranian girl who is fighting for her rights wants to call me a coward, or say that my position is one of weakness, she's earned the right to do so. Some Internet warrior whose biggest challenge in life has been getting through highschool doesn't quite get that privilege.

No one else can judge you because they haven't had a war or other kind of oppression forced on them? Sounds like you want to ensure no one ever will judge you. Arabs in arab spring at least earned their regime change, but apparently russians get the comfort of playing WoW with us and immunity to any criticism for a genocide they enabled and support by not opposing it

[Kallisto]

What were Putins ratings?

Russians who have left Russia all say the same thing about ratings. They are either A) Just made up on the spot or B) Do not include 90-95% of people who are called who immediately hang up because they don't want to give an answer that gives you 3 options. A) Special Tea B) Gulag C) Window View.

[Soulwind]

No one else can judge you because they haven't had a war or other kind of oppression forced on them? Sounds like you want to ensure no one ever will judge you. Arabs in arab spring at least earned their regime change, but apparently russians get the comfort of playing WoW with us and immunity to any criticism for a genocide they enabled and support by not opposing it

No one who hasn't fought against their government gets to say that everyone else should be willing to do so.

I'll even dare to guess that if your problem with this is that people from specific countries are playing the same videogame as you, you're not the kind of person who would fight either.

[Makabreska]

Russians who have left Russia all say the same thing about ratings. They are either A) Just made up on the spot or B) Do not include 90-95% of people who are called who immediately hang up because they don't want to give an answer that gives you 3 options. A) Special Tea B) Gulag C) Window View.

Should specify I meant pre-fixing ratings. Independent polls still shown majority of Russians supporting Putin.