1. #34481
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Ukraine's recent drone attacks killed a colonel on Russian soil.

    Putin’s colonel killed in drone strike while mowing lawn at his Russian residence according to sources.

    Alexei Chernykh, affiliated with Russia’s anti-corruption police, lost his life while performing gardening tasks at his rural home in Shchetinovka, Russia, which is located close to the Ukraine border.

    The news of his death was reported by Russian Telegram channel Baza, which has ties to the country’s security services.

    No official responsibility has been claimed by Ukraine for the drone strike. In past instances, Ukraine has distanced itself from attacks on Russian soil.

    Baza stated on Monday that Chernykh was killed when “a Ukrainian drone dropped ammunition on his garden in Shchetinovka.”
    Enemy soldier, legitimate target, what are you complaining about?

  2. #34482
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Enemy soldier, legitimate target, what are you complaining about?
    not complaining. It's the fact that despite Moscow boasting of no casualties from Ukraine's attacks, we now have a fatality confirmed.

    What will their response be?
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  3. #34483
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Nobody (outside tankies) is saying that Russia should be absolved of all sins. My main gripe is the dehumanizing language and general lack of agency people seem to give to Russians because they're the bad guys. This concerning disregard for human life is the same type of cognitive dissonance the West still has almost a century later in regards to the morality of dropping nukes on Japan. This shit cuts deep and those wounds do not heal easily. Russia will eventually capitulate and this kind of rhetoric will just make it that much harder for the millions displaced by the war to reintegrate into society.
    I think most people would be perfectly welcoming of Russians back into the world if said Russians say something to the tune of "We were completely at fault. We will pay to rebuild Ukraine. Our efforts will never bring back those who our soldiers murdered, but we hope that our commitment to righting the wrongs that we perpetrated will at least help alleviate the suffering we caused. We have taken steps to ensure that no such cruel and petty person ever holds such a place of power in Russia again. We recognize Ukraine's sovereignty as a country, will accede to Ukraine's desires to join military alliances with other countries, and will raise no objections over other countries that are our neighbors who may wish to follow in their path. We welcome international oversight into ensuring both the legitimacy of the Russian government moving forwards and towards verifying that our efforts in rebuilding Ukraine are truthful and in earnest."

    That would probably sit the situation square with most people, assuming Russia sticks to it.

    Anything short of that, though? That's basically asking people to just "forgive and forget" while requiring basically nothing from Russia in return.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    IMO, there doesn't exist a world where glassing 200k civilians was necessary. A demonstration bomb would have had the same exact effect, that being the expedition of the end of the war.
    I mean, the first Nuclear bomb didn't get Japan to surrender. So I don't think that theory holds much water. (you can even expand that further to include the attempted coup by Japanese military officials following the second bombing intending to keep the emperor from surrendering so that Japan would remain in the war.) Nor did the previous campaign of Allied non-nuclear bombings on the Japanese mainland (done so intentionally with fire bombs because many Japanese towns and cities were still made of wood buildings at the time, and as such were intended to maximize destruction) which killed more people than the nuclear bombs, cause Japan to surrender.

    Instead I put to you the question... is any bomb dropped on a civilian populace in a war "necessary?" Was Great Britain and the allies carpet bombing Germany, causing the estimated deaths of over 600,000 German civilians, "necessary?"


    Don't get it twisted, I'm not some "there is no right or wrong" clod. Quite to the contrary, I don't think targeting civilians is right. But highlighting the Nuclear bombs specifically as "beyond the pale" given the landscape of warfare at the time (that being the nonexistence of M.A.D. and the poorly understood effects of radiation) is... rather trite. Would it have been "better" for all or some of those civilians to have died... to some untold number of other non-nuclear bombs, instead of two nuclear ones, as was the case in the preceding fire bombing campaigns that didn't cause Japan to surrender? If not... why were other bombing campaigns against other axis powers "right," or "less bad?" If Japan was "obviously beaten" when the nuclear bombings occurred, can we say that Germany wasn't "obviously beaten" while Allied bombing campaigns continued to target German cities, and that therefore those bombings were more justified?

    I don't have an answer. But I'm also not pretending I do.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2023-09-01 at 12:24 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #34484
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Imagine trying to justify the murder of a city full of civilians.

    What if Russia decided to nuke Kiev to send Ukraine a strong message that they can't win and continuing to fight would only lead to their utter annihilation?

    The people who dropped that bomb were war criminals who escaped justice, nothing more. If hell exists, everyone involved is rotting in it.
    Not all all comparable. Japan was the one who started the war and were refusing to surrender. They were planning to continue fighting even after the bombs but only by the Emperor going over the heads of the government did they do so.

    And from previous examples on places like Okinawa, it was known that the civilian population wouldn't surrender either. The invasion of the Japanese homelands would have seen millions of civilian dead.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Satellite photos of Pskov shows 2 burnt out IL-76s and 2 more damaged. These planes have been doing shuttle runs to and from Iran so knocking them out will impede getting weapons from Iran.

  5. #34485
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    What will their response be?
    What it has been since the very beginning.

    No more, no less.
    Last edited by Santti; 2023-09-01 at 12:21 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  6. #34486
    Anybody seen the new updated Chinese territorial map? China claimed the entirety of Bolshoi Ussuriysky island which was previously split in two.

  7. #34487
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I don't have an answer. But I'm also not pretending I do.
    I don't think anybody does and I'd be extremely cautious to believe anybody who claims they do. War is terrible, through and through. To the monsters, we're the monsters. I just want to make sure that in our quest for complete narrative domination of the anticipated post-war morality throughline that we try not to forget innocent civilians often pay the most for ideas with the best intentions.

  8. #34488
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Anybody seen the new updated Chinese territorial map? China claimed the entirety of Bolshoi Ussuriysky island which was previously split in two.
    Interesting. It was to be expected China might start "renegotiating" with Russia.

    However, I'm not really sure what that means. It says China, so does that mean China (PRC) or Republic of China (also known as Taiwan)? Because it also says that Taiwan never recognized these border treaties. So either this might potentially mean quite a lot, or not much at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  9. #34489
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Interesting. It was to be expected China might start "renegotiating" with Russia.

    However, I'm not really sure what that means. It says China, so does that mean China (PRC) or Republic of China (also known as Taiwan)? Because it also says that Taiwan never recognized these border treaties. So either this might potentially mean quite a lot, or not much at all.
    Due to ROC not being in a position to negotiate treaties with PRC neighbours. ROC claims on the lands that neighbour china actually include areas the PRC had agreed to not being Chinese. I think that includes the entirety of Mongolia.

    Not that in reality ROC truly claims them, it's just a funny little oversight due to Beijing/Taipei realities.

  10. #34490
    Lots of videos of drones flying around in daylight in Russian territory some doing dive bombs and exploding. Hate to see children terrified but seeing the adults scared in a weird way makes me smile. Russian civilians are finally starting to see 1/1000th of the terror that their country has inflicted upon their neighbor. I hope the drones keep ramping up. Make Russia pull back all their aircraft as well as pull back their air defense.

  11. #34491
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Anybody seen the new updated Chinese territorial map? China claimed the entirety of Bolshoi Ussuriysky island which was previously split in two.
    It wasn't just russian land they claimed - amongst other places it has claimed were parts of India. So much for BRICS unity.

    Of course, it does put a whole new meaning to friendship without borders...

  12. #34492
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    It wasn't just russian land they claimed - amongst other places it has claimed were parts of India. So much for BRICS unity.

    Of course, it does put a whole new meaning to friendship without borders...
    I do wonder if this was fully intentional, or was it doing of some overeager bootlicker bureaucrat (and there are many of these in China). Because it is really dumb to do it right here and right now.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  13. #34493
    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    It wasn't just russian land they claimed - amongst other places it has claimed were parts of India. So much for BRICS unity.

    Of course, it does put a whole new meaning to friendship without borders...
    They claimed a whole ass state in India.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arunachal_Pradesh

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I do wonder if this was fully intentional, or was it doing of some overeager bootlicker bureaucrat (and there are many of these in China). Because it is really dumb to do it right here and right now.
    This was intentional. China has been ramping up these territorial claims for years and years.

    The border disputes with Russia were one of the reasons for the Sino-Soviet split back in the day.

    But this time around I think the Chinese claimed territory from every country they share borders with except Mongolia I think.

    Plus the whole South China Sea thing.

    We in the West, especially on the left of the political spectrum, have seem to convinced ourselves that only we do imperialism.

    There's a reason everyone in East Asia hates the Japanese and there's a reason why everyone in South East Asia hates the Chinese. And there's a reason why everyone around Russia, hates Russia.

    What I wonder about tho, is how do Russian nationalist "intellectuals" of the Dugin variety who have been advocating for a Russo-Chinese realignment interpret this.

  14. #34494
    Banned Cynical Asshole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    It wasn't just russian land they claimed - amongst other places it has claimed were parts of India. So much for BRICS unity.

    Of course, it does put a whole new meaning to friendship without borders...
    Only Russian idiots believe that China is a friend to Russia. China will devour Russia at the first sign of serious weakness.

  15. #34495
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I do wonder if this was fully intentional, or was it doing of some overeager bootlicker bureaucrat (and there are many of these in China). Because it is really dumb to do it right here and right now.
    If it wasn't intentional, it was more in the "we shouldn't feature this in propaganda right now" kind of mistake, rather than their national attitudes not being exactly that.

    China and India have had icy relations particularly in regards to where their borders goes for decades, and do not at all trust each others.

  16. #34496
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    This was intentional. China has been ramping up these territorial claims for years and years.
    Why would they release it exactly at the time of BRICS meeting, where China was trying so hard to show that they are unified against "filthy West"? I could understand taking over territories of other neighbours (and maybe India), but Russia? This all is just dumb and immediately antagonizes their "allies".
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  17. #34497
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Why would they release it exactly at the time of BRICS meeting, where China was trying so hard to show that they are unified against "filthy West"? I could understand taking over territories of other neighbours (and maybe India), but Russia? This all is just dumb and immediately antagonizes their "allies".
    The whole BRICS v West thing is a Russian fetish. Neither India nor China, let alone Brazil or South Africa see the whole thing as such.

    For the Chinese BRICS is an economic thing. There was apparently a meeting between Modi and Xi at the BRICS conference that didn't go exceptionally well.

    There's a G20 meeting coming up on September 9 in New Delhi. Xi, Modi, Putin will all be expected to be in attendance...also the Japanese, Koreans, Malaysians, Indonesian etc.

    The map seem to be carefully targeted to basically piss off almost everyone expected to attend.

  18. #34498
    Xi and pootie aren't going to the g20.

  19. #34499
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Lots of videos of drones flying around in daylight in Russian territory some doing dive bombs and exploding. Hate to see children terrified but seeing the adults scared in a weird way makes me smile. Russian civilians are finally starting to see 1/1000th of the terror that their country has inflicted upon their neighbor. I hope the drones keep ramping up. Make Russia pull back all their aircraft as well as pull back their air defense.
    That would be ideal, yes. If they pull everything back to protect the home front, then Ukraine will have a much easier time recapturing territory and fortifying positions.

  20. #34500
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    The map seem to be carefully targeted to basically piss off almost everyone expected to attend.
    It should be noted that all the affected countries lodged complaints. Even tiny highly vulnerable Nepal. Not a peep out of Russia. The Ukraine war has severely weakened Russia both economically and politically.

    Right after I posted that, they made their statement.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2023-09-01 at 04:01 PM.

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