1. #34661
    I won't post it here, but I watched some war footage today (LIVE) of Russia still using human wave tactics; the humans were obliterated in a shower of gore by Ukrainian artillery. One tactic used recently south of Robotyne is artillery shelling behind their own lines. They can either stay on the front line and be killed by UA, or retreat and be killed by their own artillery fire.

    Victory or death tactics by sheer numbers, logic or not.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  2. #34662
    It's hard to make sense with this war because I doubt either side is saying the truth. In the news they said that Ukrainians breached the second line of defense and now I read some defeatist statements by Ukrainian officials. Zelensky said that the Russian airforce has halted the Ukrainian counteroffensive and another official is saying that the enemy is strong with more weapons and men.

    Is it wise for Ukraine to keep pushing?

    Could this counteroffensive leave them vulnerable to a Russian counteroffensive assuming that it failed? Are they wasting too much men and equipment that could be used to defend and secure the areas that are not occupied?
    Last edited by Vampiregenesis; 2023-09-09 at 09:21 PM.

  3. #34663
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    It's hard to make sense with this war because I doubt either side is saying the truth. In the news they said that Ukrainians breached the second line of defense and now I read some defeatist statements by Ukrainian officials. Zelensky said that the Russian airforce has halted the Ukrainian counteroffensive and another official is saying that the enemy is strong with more weapons and men.

    Is it wise for Ukraine to keep pushing?

    Could this counteroffensive leave them vulnerable to a Russian counteroffensive assuming that it failed? Are they wasting too much men and equipment that could be used to defend and secure the areas that are not occupied?
    While I doubt Ukraine has the capability to enact a major breach anytime soon, I doubt even more that Russia has the capability for a meaningful counter-attack this deep in the year. If Russia was ready for a major offensive operation they wouldn't retreat behind a wall of mines and artillery. Those are logistically daunting maneuvers and Ukraine (and its Western gear) has proven its ability in field operations. Russia bunkers down in large part because they know the Ukrainians, for all said fancy gear, don't have an easy answer for cheap mine spam and Imperial Guard-levels of massed artillery barrages backed by air support. Russia wouldn't risk compromising their favorable defensive position lightly, especially since we're closing in to the seasons of mud and snow and then more mud, all of which can slow operations down to a crawl and favor a defender.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

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  4. #34664
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    Is it wise for Ukraine to keep pushing?
    What are ruSSias war goals again?

  5. #34665
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    While I doubt Ukraine has the capability to enact a major breach anytime soon, I doubt even more that Russia has the capability for a meaningful counter-attack this deep in the year. If Russia was ready for a major offensive operation they wouldn't retreat behind a wall of mines and artillery. Those are logistically daunting maneuvers and Ukraine (and its Western gear) has proven its ability in field operations. Russia bunkers down in large part because they know the Ukrainians, for all said fancy gear, don't have an easy answer for cheap mine spam and Imperial Guard-levels of massed artillery barrages backed by air support. Russia wouldn't risk compromising their favorable defensive position lightly, especially since we're closing in to the seasons of mud and snow and then more mud, all of which can slow operations down to a crawl and favor a defender.
    Except russia really isn't doing that. They aren't bunkering down, they no longer have superiority in artillery and air power is staying well away from the front line.

    Ukraine has breached the defensive line and are consolidating. The reason it took so long was russia quadrupled the front minefield and largely ignored the full back locations. Almost all their resources went into that first line. And Ukraine has broken through in one place, and is widening it.

    Another readin for the slow progress is that russia can't be seen to give up anything for Kremlin reasons. Robotyne fell 2 weeks ago and they are still trying to retake it, suffering heavy losses as attack after attack gets beaten back. And it's their best units, the airborne and naval infantry, being degraded trying this.


    While that was going on, Ukraine has been destroying Russian artillery at a staggering rate to the point they appear to have artillery superiority on the south.

    Also, the terrain in the south is different - the mud in the north and east doesn't appear in the south. The Kherson offensive took place in the mud season.

  6. #34666
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    A more accurate description would be that the US has a hostile relationship with Cuba in order to cater politically to some one issue Latino voters in southern Florida. Because exactly ZERO other people give an actual fuck about the embargo at this point.
    An important note is that shortly before leaving office, Obama lifted most of our sanctions on Cuba.

    Then Trump promptly put most of them back because he's a petty, vindictive child.

  7. #34667
    It appears that Russia has 420000 soldiers on the occupied areas and they are going to recruit more, these are the Ukrainian estimates, I guess they might be even more than this, if the Ukrainians are really determined to pass through this I guess we are going to see a stalingrant soon

  8. #34668
    Russia just doesn't seem to run out of bodies to throw at the meat grinder, but it's clear these human wave tactics are taking its toll on Ukraine contrary to how people just encouraged Russia to keep throwing them and accomplishing nothing.

    If we consider those estimates and how Russia has at least lost that many so far, thats stretching to a million.

    And it's evident they're trafficking humans from places like Africa and Cuba for a while though. So will they ever run out?
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  9. #34669
    Quote Originally Posted by Vampiregenesis View Post
    It appears that Russia has 420000 soldiers on the occupied areas and they are going to recruit more, these are the Ukrainian estimates, I guess they might be even more than this, if the Ukrainians are really determined to pass through this I guess we are going to see a stalingrant soon
    If only there was a way to avoid that...

  10. #34670
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    If only there was a way to avoid that...
    there's no avoiding it because the Russians would literally die than surrender as proven again just yesterday.

    NSFW content but it's carefully filtered mods.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  11. #34671
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    there's no avoiding it because the Russians would literally die than surrender as proven again just yesterday.

    NSFW content but it's carefully filtered mods.
    Literally walk away and its avoided. No surrender needed. Whether they have the IQ to not die for nothing, is another question that is not allowed in MMO-C.

  12. #34672
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    to not die for nothing
    They are genuinely loyal to Putin, so in their mind, dying in battle is worth it. That's why they commit suicide or try these stunts of fake-outs before imminent death. The Japanese in WW2 did it all the time, making the famous kamikaze term we now know.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  13. #34673
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    They are genuinely loyal to Putin, so in their mind, dying in battle is worth it. That's why they commit suicide or try these stunts of fake-outs before imminent death. The Japanese in WW2 did it all the time, making the famous kamikaze term we now know.
    I'm 100% sure they are entirely believing to be part of a supreme empire that is destined to prevail. Or just racist fucking idiots believing if they act stronk enough, they can do anything.

    Or maybe the mobiks were told Ukraine treats their prisoners like russians treat theirs - they witnessed it firsthand...Why seemingly be raped to death by a rusty garden fork when you can just die instantly with a surprise grenade?

    But eh, YUPPIE thinking real life works like a fictional empire where undying loyalty means jackshit. You are so, so gullible...

  14. #34674
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    Or maybe the mobiks were told Ukraine treats their prisoners like russians treat theirs - they witnessed it firsthand...Why seemingly be raped to death by a rusty garden fork when you can just die instantly with a surprise grenade?
    Alternatively, dying means that your family at least has a shot at getting some money from the Russian state to survive.
    I doubt the families of POW's receive anything, let alone a premise for them to be reintegrated into society under the current government.

    Let's just imagine the following scenario: The War ends (somehow), Putin / his government stays in power and all those POW's are being returned to Russia.
    What's going to happen to them?
    If we go full Stalin, then those people's future can be described as "not too fucking bright".

    I don't want to encourage anyone to go out in a blaze of glory for Russia, but i gotta be realistic enough and say that the future of those POW's is less than certain, because it massively depends on how this war ends and how it impacts Russia internally.

  15. #34675
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Alternatively, dying means that your family at least has a shot at getting some money from the Russian state to survive.
    No, the Russian state has proven to not actually compensate families at all and do their best to find excuses if intimidation doesn't work.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  16. #34676
    420K may sound like a lot, but their actual frontline combat troops are spread thin. A lot of those are trying to keep the creaky logistics going and also trying to keep a restive populace down - occupying forces need to keep a lot of troops back behind the lines keeping things secure which saps their frontline strength.

    And russia is trying to keep feeding the meatgrinder but there is a limit. When you count those mobilised, the dead, the crippled and the fled, they've probably yoinked a couple of million out of their workforce. Throw in another million odd as pootin's personal security force trying to keep russia under control and you are dealing with a huge portion of their available workforce tied up.

    On top of that they are trying to expand the military industrial complex. Which will require more workers. Which will further strain their creaky economy. Heck, they have announced plans they are going to restart T80 production, 20 years after it ended. The factory that built them no longer exists so they are going to have to rebuild it from scratch, which will take a long time. Given the T80 is more expensive to make than the T72s and T90s (which are just reskinned T72s anyway) and aren't any better, it has people scratching their heads as to why. Well, besides embezzlement. Best guess is that T72/T90 refurbishment is at its limit and the old stocks of T80s that could easily be sent to the front have been, so they are going to make 'new' T80s by taking all the non functioning ones in storage, breaking them up and frankenstiening 'new' ones from the cannibalized parts.

    Their frontline strength is stretched and they keep trying to shuffle them around to deal with threats but that just exposes other locations - they are redeploying horizontally, not from reserves. Case in point - russian sources have said that the Ukrainians are pushing on Donetsk airport, and there is good evidence that is happening. Back during the initial russian invasion in 2014, Ukraine put up a heroic defense of the place which led to the legend of the Cyborgs. Taking it back, or simply moving on it, forces the russians to again redeploy to try and stop it as losing it not only would be a major concern for morale and propaganda, it also puts the Ukrainians practically in the suburbs of Donetsk city itself. And that is a major headache for the russians.

  17. #34677
    A Russian general promoted recently said today in a bold claim that Russia intends on conquering all of Europe and that Ukraine is just "the start"

    This week, Putin promoted Lieutenant General Andrey Mordvichev to the rank of Colonel-General. The military leader had already been serving in the role of commanding the Central Military District and Russian Central Grouping of Forces in Ukraine.

    In a recent interview with Moscow's state-run Russia-1, a clip of which circulated widely on social media Saturday, Mordvichev said he believes Putin's war will last quite a long time and expand in the future.

    "I think there's still plenty of time to spend. It is pointless to talk about a specified period. If we are talking about Eastern Europe, which we will have to, of course then it will be longer," the general said.

    "Ukraine is only a stepping stone?" the interviewer then asked.

    "Yes, absolutely. It is only the beginning," Mordvichev responded, who went on to say that the war "will not stop here."
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  18. #34678
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    A Russian general promoted recently said today in a bold claim that Russia intends on conquering all of Europe and that Ukraine is just "the start"

    This week, Putin promoted Lieutenant General Andrey Mordvichev to the rank of Colonel-General. The military leader had already been serving in the role of commanding the Central Military District and Russian Central Grouping of Forces in Ukraine.

    In a recent interview with Moscow's state-run Russia-1, a clip of which circulated widely on social media Saturday, Mordvichev said he believes Putin's war will last quite a long time and expand in the future.

    "I think there's still plenty of time to spend. It is pointless to talk about a specified period. If we are talking about Eastern Europe, which we will have to, of course then it will be longer," the general said.

    "Ukraine is only a stepping stone?" the interviewer then asked.

    "Yes, absolutely. It is only the beginning," Mordvichev responded, who went on to say that the war "will not stop here."
    Man losing over 12,500 vehicles to a stepping stone is pretty embarrassing. But go ahead and try it Russia, you attempt to invade Europe and those stones you talk about will instantly be landslides from all directions and will bury your entire country.

  19. #34679
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Man losing over 12,500 vehicles to a stepping stone is pretty embarrassing. But go ahead and try it Russia, you attempt to invade Europe and those stones you talk about will instantly be landslides from all directions and will bury your entire country.
    And this is why it's important for the US/EU/NATO to intervene and continue to do so. Stop the genocidal dictator rampaging across Europe before he can gain any headway.

    I'll await with baited breath to hear about Russia's professed desire to continue taking over Eastern Europe is "the west's" fault. Though those posters have grown pretty scant.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  20. #34680
    They also claimed they were going to take Kyiv in 3 days. This is entirely for internal propaganda purposes. And possible to suck up to pootin, to tell him what he wants to hear. its not going to happen, not when Poland is probably just itching to be unleashed.

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