Russian invasion of Ukraine

[WowIsDead64]

Wait so… paying for gas… and selling the gas you paid for and now own… is stealing?

Yeah, because it was 15% for internal use only. EU gas had different prices and was sold to EU directly. Reselling it to EU meant stealing difference in price from Russia. Plus as they were reselling gas, that was intended to be used by themselves, they were lacking gas themselves and needed to steal it from transit pipe. This time they were stealing from EU. This is called double stealing.

[Skulltaker]

Yeah, because it was 15% for internal use only. EU gas had different prices and was sold to EU directly. Reselling it to EU meant stealing difference in price from Russia. Plus as they were reselling gas, that was intended to be used by themselves, they were lacking gas themselves and needed to steal it from transit pipe.

I think you need to phrase this better so people understand what you try to say. You're saying Ukraine bought Gas from Russia at a discount, meant for them, and then sold that Gas to the EU to make a profit instead of consuming it themselves, correct? And then they stole Gas to compensate for the Gas they sold to the EU because they needed more Gas.

And that is grounds for an invasion.

[Forogil]

Either that or he doesn't have it all together.

He has shown pictures of nazis but never mentioned how many there are.
I've got news for him; every country has got nazis.
I'm even willing to bet 20 turnips that some Russian nazis voted for Putin too...

All the misinformation from Russia about Nazi made me realize that it's not only propaganda, it's also projection.

Case in point:

So, that's the main Russian mercenary military leader, who loves Wagner, with SS-like insignias on his shoulder.

Seems like an almost cartoonish attempt at making their own Nazis by Russians.

[WowIsDead64]

And that is grounds for an invasion.

No, it was long ago. Problems started, when all of a sudden instead of supporting legitimate actions of Russia against Ukraine, USA started to support Ukraine instead.

[ati87]

I can’t help but feel the eurozone got caught with its pants down militarily speaking. Maintaining force projection capability is not for conquering the world per se but about deterrence mostly against aggressors such as Russia has proved to be.

We don't need to build up a force that is capable of starting a offensive war, that would for example mean that we wouldn't be just defend Ukraine but also invade Russia.
What we (EU) do need to to is stop having individual army and move towards a unified EU army.

Having a single army would be allot cheaper then what we have now, US for example gets more for it's money then individual European country's when it comes to military spending. US still throwing away allot of money on stupid shit but that is a discussion on it's own.

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No, it was long ago. Problems started, when all of a sudden instead of supporting legitimate actions of Russia against Ukraine, USA started to support Ukraine instead.

So you admit that you don't have a justification for war....it's good that you can be honest with yourself to some degree.

[Corvus]

So, did the Ukrainian army recapture the airport or not?

Hasn't been any word about it in a while.

At the very least the Russians failed in their attempts to seize it and fly in reinforcements.

[PhaelixWW]

Isn't "give us gas for free or we'll cut EU consumers" blackmailing? Or may be I miss something in definition of blackmailing?

Except that's not what's going on.

In fact, the blackmail accusations go the other direction...

FT: Ukraine says Russian gas supply curbs to Europe are ‘blackmail’
Reuters: Head of Ukraine's Naftogaz accuses Russia of blackmailing Europe over gas

But this is fact. They is the biggest problem with USA - denying facts.

No. When Russia is the only one saying it and pretty much every other country disagrees with it, then it's pretty obvious that Russia is the one denying facts here.

Doesn't it sound strange, that instead of saying thx to Russia for getting rid of law breaking and resource stealing country, whole world supported Ukraine instead? Is it ok to steal?

No. Even if it were true, the world would never say "thanks" to Russia for declaring war and invading another country over stolen gas.

[Kreuger]

Seems like they have reached the outskirts of Kiev

[Flarelaine]

That is true, and we don't have big means of force projection, since the Bundeswehr is a defensive army only.

You do have the Luftwaffe. Russian air superiority is a pretty important part of the situation in Ukraine right now.

[Strawberry]

The only reality is that Putin is waging war on Ukraine for no justifiable reason, which is why a significant chunk of the globe has issued sanctions against Russia.

That's not quite correct. There's a very good reason and it's being NATO.
No one wants missiles pointed at them in a country that's next to them, while the countries pointing those missiles at you are nowhere near.

[PhaelixWW]

That's not quite correct. There's a very good reason and it's being NATO.
No one wants missiles pointed at them in a country that's next to them, while the countries pointing those missiles at you are nowhere near.

Go ahead, point out those missiles.

[Voidwielder]

Another day, another war crime.
https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/st...24626295664640

[wunksta]

That's not quite correct. There's a very good reason and it's being NATO.
No one wants missiles pointed at them in a country that's next to them, while the countries pointing those missiles at you are nowhere near.

Invading a country doesn't seem like the best plan to avoid that. Will just lead to more defense build up.

[PhaelixWW]

Another day, another war crime.
https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/st...24626295664640

If the comments are to be believed, that's a Ukrainian tank, not a Russian tank. I'm not qualified to confirm, however.

[Strawberry]

Invading a country doesn't seem like the best plan to avoid that. Will just lead to more defense build up.

But not in your neighbourhood.
Once Ukraine joins NATO and defense/offense missiles are installed, that's basically it. Russia can't do anything about it anymore without starting a WW3 (or Russia vs NATO war). It wouldn't be a proxy war like in Vietnam/Syria.
And the losing side would be Russia, as the war would be waged on its own soil. Putin had to act as there would be no second chances here.

I'm Slavic, and this is Slavic people hitting Slavic people which I'm not quite ok with, but Ukraine sold themselves to the west.

[Verdugo]

I'm Slavic, and this is Slavic people hitting Slavic people which I'm not quite ok with,

You were always ok with it, as long as it is under Russian boot.

[ati87]

That's not quite correct. There's a very good reason and it's being NATO.
No one wants missiles pointed at them in a country that's next to them, while the countries pointing those missiles at you are nowhere near.

Where do you want to start? Poland (Nato),Turkey (Nato) but otherwise just invade N-Korea if you want to play safe.

[PhaelixWW]

Once Ukraine joins NATO and defense/offense missiles are installed, that's basically it.

Wow, more delusions.

NATO isn't a threat to Russia.

Russia is just looking for a little of living space, yeah? We all know how that turned out last time.

[DarkTZeratul]

But not in your neighbourhood.
Once Ukraine joins NATO and defense/offense missiles are installed, that's basically it. Russia can't do anything about it anymore without starting a WW3 (or Russia vs NATO war). It wouldn't be a proxy war like in Vietnam/Syria.
And the losing side would be Russia, as the war would be waged on its own soil. Putin had to act as there would be no second chances here.

So let's assume, for the sake of argument, that this is true. Annexing Ukraine, which is not part of NATO, now puts them next to Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania, which ARE... And means that--again, assuming your missile argument is true--they would now have NATO missiles pointed at them.

Doesn't make a lot of fucking sense when you actually start examining the flimsy logic.

[Joszef Kiprich]

So let's assume, for the sake of argument, that this is true. Annexing Ukraine, which is not part of NATO, now puts them next to Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romania, which ARE... And means that--again, assuming your missile argument is true--they would now have NATO missiles pointed at them.

Doesn't make a lot of fucking sense when you actually start examining the flimsy logic.

Exactly, we don't want our direct neighbors to join NATO, well except for the Baltics. So we annexed Krim first. Oh hi new neighbor Turkey (NATO-member). Now we'll take over the rest of Ukraine. Oh hi Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania (all NATO members)