Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Makabreska]

wait.... you actually think NK can provide anything to Russia....... LOL!!!!!!!!!

NK has a huge stockpile of soviet era (AKA Russian-compatible) weaponry Kim daddy and grandpa paranoically gathered in case of SK/USA war. He has stuff to spare.

[Orange Joe]

Okay, lets be real here for a second - they can. They have a huge stockpile of weapons, ammo and equipment, a lot of it is 40-50 years old stuff, but it still shoots them bullets and shells that can still kill people.

The real question is not whether they can provide anything, but whether they actually will at capacity that is more than just a gesture. And this depends on many factors as I said in my previous post.

Kim wants Russian technology and know-how, but Russia isn't just about to go ahead and spill the beans on the stuff he actually wants all that fast for many reasons.

NK has a huge stockpile of soviet era (AKA Russian-compatible) weaponry Kim daddy and grandpa paranormally gathered in case of SK/USA war. He has stuff to spare.

You guys really think he is going to give away anything significant? We are talking about someone that thinks the US can and will attack him at any time.

[Gaidax]

North Korea is most certainly heavily influenced by China. The whole Russia - NK - China - Iran friendship is nothing more than a loose alliance of conveniences where every party is in it just to claw out their piece of the pie.

NK is China's backyard and China won't be too thrilled with Russia and NK getting a bit too chummy, and China has enough sticks and carrots for both to make sure they keep their newfound friendship restrained.

Can Xi call Kim and tell him "yo bitch, you wear pink panties today and eat banana cereal for breakfast" - no. But China is a big part of what keeps North Korea afloat and with that comes the influence. China is not interested in destabilizing the puddle they sit in, so whatever deal Russia and NK cook up - it will make sure it does not go too far to make them uncomfortable. And they definitely can do just that because for Russia and NK - China is a much more important partner than either of them.

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You guys really think he is going to give away anything significant? We are talking about someone that thinks the US can and will attack him at any time.

You read minds? Damn, I guess CIA should employ your services.

Nobody really knows what Kim or Putin think, but on the list of Kim's worries - US invading North Korea is probably somewhere down at 30th place, right after what color his new horse to take pictures with will be.

[Makabreska]

You guys really think he is going to give away anything significant? We are talking about someone that thinks the US can and will attack him at any time.

No, I don't think he thinks like that. Pretty sure he realises that he is bunkered up nicely, has China backing and keeps the world guessing on how much nuclear power he actually possess. Dude knows he is safe for as long as he wont make a first move.

[Orange Joe]

You read minds? Damn, I guess CIA should employ your services.

Nobody really knows what Kim or Putin think, but on the list of Kim's worries - US invading North Korea is probably somewhere down at 30th place, right after what color his new horse to take pictures with will be.

What part of what I said do you think is mind reading?

Are these guys mind readers too?

https://www.rand.org/blog/2023/04/ho...r-weapons.html

[Gaidax]

No, I don't think he thinks like that. Pretty sure he realises that he is bunkered up nicely, has China backing and keeps the world guessing on how much nuclear power he actually possess. Dude knows he is safe for as long as he wont make a first move.

It's not even that, it's a simple fact that NK can turn Seoul into rubble in the first 2 days of any attempt of any hypothetic invasion. And it does not even matter whether it's a guarantee to happen or just a chance - the risk is too high. His guarantee is exactly that and not nukes or anything else.

And that is even besides the fact that US is really in no mood for any wars anytime soon and South Korea won't stand for such an adventure either.

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What part of what I said do you think is mind reading?

Are these guys mind readers too?

https://www.rand.org/blog/2023/04/ho...r-weapons.html

Literally from your own article:

But Kim's real worry appears to be something else. We cannot know for sure, but it's likely his own survival and continued control of North Korea is his primary objective.

Now go ahead and read what I wrote above.

[Vampiregenesis]

If you can't trust Reuters or similar sources, you don't have a non-propaganda source available.

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Also, calling people "West vatniks" when opposing a genocidal war, people who revel in defeat of the nazi terrorist state...It tells me you have a bias towards something else

You still have a claim of people saying something you refuse to quote or help us find out.

What happens in Libya is genocide too, without the intervention of nato at 2011, there wouldn't be 20K+ dead now, there wouldn't be people sold as slaves and drown on mediterranean.

Is this why Russia is fighting on Ukraine? to avoid such terrible fate? None knows, however a non-vatnik person should keep his distance from both sides and just say, "I don't know until it's proven". On a Russian forum, they would say the same but "nato nazis are trying to genocide us"

West sources only show russian dead and russian defeats, if I had to take for granted the information they show me, I would assume that russians are just fodders and they should have been defeated long ago, while ukrainians are invincible, literally.

[Orange Joe]

Literally from your own article:

But Kim's real worry appears to be something else. We cannot know for sure, but it's likely his own survival and continued control of North Korea is his primary objective.

Now go ahead and read what I wrote above.

So you can have an opinion one what he is going to do and it's not mind reading, but my opinion is? lol......

[Saradain]

What happens in Libya is genocide too, without the intervention of nato at 2011, there wouldn't be 20K+ dead now, there wouldn't be people sold as slaves and drown on mediterranean.

Is this why Russia is fighting on Ukraine? to avoid such terrible fate? None knows, however a non-vatnik person should keep his distance from both sides and just say, "I don't know until it's proven". On a Russian forum, they would say the same but "nato nazis are trying to genocide us"

West sources only show russian dead and russian defeats, if I had to take for granted the information they show me, I would assume that russians are just fodders and they should have been defeated long ago, while ukrainians are invincible, literally.

Yeah no lol. Whataboutism about NATO (that was mandated to intervene) and pretending Russia is "saving Ukraine from civilian casualties"...

We have shit tons of proof of russians committing a genocide against Ukraine, mostly against civilians in Ukraine. You can stop pretending it doesn't exist. I don't think any amount of proof would work for you, because you want to see the West as the bad guys so you will simply not accept anything contradicting that.

What happens in Libya is genocide too

Why isn't this mentioned anywhere, do you have an international decision about current affairs (in 2023) that Libya is undergoing a genocide?

[Santti]

What happens in Libya is genocide too, without the intervention of nato at 2011, there wouldn't be 20K+ dead now, there wouldn't be people sold as slaves and drown on mediterranean.

Is this why Russia is fighting on Ukraine? to avoid such terrible fate? None knows, however a non-vatnik person should keep his distance from both sides and just say, "I don't know until it's proven". On a Russian forum, they would say the same but "nato nazis are trying to genocide us"

West sources only show russian dead and russian defeats, if I had to take for granted the information they show me, I would assume that russians are just fodders and they should have been defeated long ago, while ukrainians are invincible, literally.

Well, I hope you are about to pull the "I'm just joking, lol", because this is even more idiotic than the one where you said it was a joke.

I like the continued usage of vatnik, btw.

[Gaidax]

So you can have an opinion one what he is going to do and it's not mind reading, but my opinion is? lol......

Difference is you claim to seem to know what Kim thinks, but I'm just giving an assessment of the reality with adding the word probably as well.

The reality is - just like your article points out, that he has many worries that can actually play out. Whether it's a coup, a rebellion or even said drone strike takedown - these things really can happen.

US invading NK? The probability of that is infinitely smaller than of either of above, both because of the circumstances and the guarantees NK built to discourage that kind of action.

Heck, I'd say these memes of Putin serving him his specialty tea and replacing him with a double to control NK has fucking more chance of happening than US invasion of NK.

[Orange Joe]

Difference is you claim to seem to know what Kim thinks, but I'm just giving an assessment of the reality with adding the word probably as well.

The reality is - just like your article points out, that he has many worries that can actually play out. Whether it's a coup, a rebellion or even said drone strike takedown - these things really can happen.

US invading NK? The probability of that is infinitely smaller than of either of above, both because of the circumstances and the guarantees NK built to discourage that kind of action.

Heck, I'd say these memes of Putin serving him his specialty tea and replacing him with a double to control NK has fucking more chance of happening than US invasion of NK.

I do?? where did I say that? Or did I give my opinion on what I think he will do. Yes, I THINK he fears the US. Yes, I THINK he won't give much of anything to Russia.


This is no more mind reading than you THINKING he doesn't fear the US....... Or are you saying YOU KNOW what he thinks?

[Makabreska]

I do?? where did I say that? Or did I give my opinion on what I think he will do. Yes, I THINK he fears the US. Yes, I THINK he won't give much of anything to Russia.


This is no more mind reading than you THINKING he doesn't fear the US....... Or are you saying YOU KNOW what he thinks?

You really like to come to threads and argue angrily with others about irrelevant stuff like they just insulted your mother, eh?

[Vampiregenesis]

Yeah no lol. Whataboutism about NATO (that was mandated to intervene) and pretending Russia is "saving Ukraine from civilian casualties"...

We have shit tons of proof of russians committing a genocide against Ukraine, mostly against civilians in Ukraine. You can stop pretending it doesn't exist. I don't think any amount of proof would work for you, because you want to see the West as the bad guys so you will simply not accept anything contradicting that.



Why isn't this mentioned anywhere, do you have an international decision about current affairs (in 2023) that Libya is undergoing a genocide?

Russia was mandated to intervene too from the republics of donetsk, you probably forget about the part where they asked for russians to come. So according to your logic, is it fine I guess? or maybe the rebels on libya were more legit?

I haven't seen evidence anywhere that russia is commiting genocide intentionally besides bucha where I can't say if that was intended by the state, I can bring you up several massacres commited by nato countries on syria much worse than bucha. Would you accept them as genocide?

So far the civilian casualties on ukraine are normal considering the size of this war and weapons involved, missiles can miss targets or can be stopped and then drop to civilians, such casualties exist on russia controlled areas too. The history of war didn't start on 2022, war is a terrible thing and no matter how hard the armies involved try, there will be civilian casualties, that's why it's better if there is no war. There have been far worse wars than this historically which is surprising considering the amount of fire power countries have now.

There is no what aboutism, the russians if they lose or let nato get a solid settlement on ukraine, they may suffer the same consequences as libyans.

[Makabreska]

Russia was mandated to intervene too from the republics of donetsk, you probably forget about the part where they asked for russians to come. So is it fine I guess?

I haven't seen evidence anywhere that russia is commiting genocide intentionally besides bucha where I can't say if that was intended by the state, I can bring you up several massacres commited by nato countries on syria much worse than bucha. Was this an intended genocide?

So far the civilian casualties on ukraine are normal considering the size of this war and weapons involved, missiles can miss targets or can be stopped and then drop to civilians, such casualties exist on russia controlled areas too.

There is no what aboutism, the russians if they lose or let nato get a solid settlement on ukraine, they may suffer the same consequences as libyans.

Thank you finally for showing us who you truly are.

[Saradain]

Russia was mandated to intervene too from the republics of donetsk, you probably forget about the part where they asked for russians to come. So is it fine I guess?

I haven't seen evidence anywhere that russia is commiting genocide intentionally besides bucha where I can't say if that was intended by the state, I can bring you up several massacres commited by nato countries on syria much worse than bucha. Was this an intended genocide?

So far the civilian casualties on ukraine are normal considering the size of this war and weapons involved, missiles can miss targets or can be stopped and then drop to civilians, such casualties exist on russia controlled areas too.

There is no what aboutism, the russians if they lose or let nato get a solid settlement on ukraine, they may suffer the same consequences as libyans.

Russia was mandated by the United Nations?? Or was Russia faking a referendum and asking itself to intervene, ie invade? Btw, Donetsk belongs to Ukraine by international law, ergo, it cannot randomly ask Russia to "liberate" it, nor can Russia hold a legal referendum in Ukraine

Yep, you're trolling hard. Denying genocide, denying all the proof the world has about russians committing a genocide in Ukraine, denying purposeful civilian targeting, claiming that Russia has to win or Ukraine will have a genocide...While Ukraine is having one right NOW, by Russia. You should go to those forums that feed your delusions and leave this one.

PS. Whataboutism = but but NATO DID THIS AND THAT, SO RUSSIA SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING!!!

[Santti]

Russia was mandated to intervene too from the republics of donetsk, you probably forget about the part where they asked for russians to come. So according to your logic, is it fine I guess? or maybe the rebels on libya were more legit?

I haven't seen evidence anywhere that russia is commiting genocide intentionally besides bucha where I can't say if that was intended by the state, I can bring you up several massacres commited by nato countries on syria much worse than bucha. Was this an intended genocide?

So far the civilian casualties on ukraine are normal considering the size of this war and weapons involved, missiles can miss targets or can be stopped and then drop to civilians, such casualties exist on russia controlled areas too.

There is no what aboutism, the russians if they lose or let nato get a solid settlement on ukraine, they may suffer the same consequences as libyans.

Again, leaning so hard towards the crazy, your earlier "it was just a joke" is rather hard to take seriously.

But fine, lets see the clearly unbiased sources you get these hot takes from. I sure would like to see those.

[Gaidax]

I do?? where did I say that? Or did I give my opinion on what I think he will do. Yes, I THINK he fears the US. Yes, I THINK he won't give much of anything to Russia.


This is no more mind reading than you THINKING he doesn't fear the US....... Or are you saying YOU KNOW what he thinks?

I'm not exactly sure where you're going with all this, but may I suggest a glass of water?

I don't think anyone here claimed he is going to rush and send Putin half of his stockpile.

The initial argument was that Kim can provide a useful assistance to Russia, because all in all old ammo and all weapons are better than no ammo and weapons. And also, the word can does not mean will, because half a dozen aforementioned reasons.

What Kim thinks or not thinks it's not really in scope of our coffee reading session. I operate based on reasonable realities on the ground, I can't guess feelings.

Now, would you kindly get back to the thread's topic or you are going to keep trying to defend your honor, as if anyone really gives a damn about it?

[Orange Joe]

You really like to come to threads and argue angrily with others about irrelevant stuff like they just insulted your mother, eh?

Don't project please. Otherwise yes I like to debate. If I didn't I wouldn't be here would I?

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I'm not exactly sure where you're going with all this, but may I suggest a glass of water?

I don't think anyone here claimed he is going to rush and send Putin half of his stockpile.

The initial argument was that Kim can provide a useful assistance to Russia, because all in all old ammo and all weapons are better than no ammo and weapons. And also, the word can does not mean will, because half a dozen aforementioned reasons.

What Kim thinks or not thinks it's not really in scope of our coffee reading session. I operate based on reasonable realities on the ground, I can't guess feelings.

Now, would you kindly get back to the thread's topic or you are going to keep trying to defend your honor, as if anyone really gives a damn about it?

And I disagree. Ammo does nothing without the bodies and guns/launchers to shoot them, by all counts right now Russia is having more issues with people than anything else.


You both need to stop projecting yourselves on to others, just because you are/would be angry doesn't mean everyone is.


There is exactly 1 time I have been mad on these forums and there was no question about it. Just ask @cubby (if he even remember anymore lol)

[Gaidax]

And I disagree. Ammo does nothing without the bodies and guns/launchers to shoot them, by all counts right now Russia is having more issues with people than anything else.

What a strange mindset.

You do realize that one does not make the other meaningless? Russia needs everything, manpower and weapons/ammo/spare parts.

Obviously, Kim can't solve the manpower issue for Russia, but he can help with weapons/ammo/spare parts.