1. #34961
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    So is the suffering to not giving a shit ratio in Russia.
    If a russian isn't suffering are they really a russian?

  2. #34962
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    So is the suffering to not giving a shit ratio in Russia.
    Russia is clearly going to keep throwing away resources at this war. In my (armchair strategist) eyes, Ukraine's best bet is to wage a war of equipment attrition, leveraging the vastly superior manufacturing/stores of the West over Russia and the couple countries exploiting Russia's desperation.

    While it is not without risks to the individuals doing so, going in and knocking out the power to what arms manufacturing Russia still has works towards that overall goal.

  3. #34963
    Quote Originally Posted by Shkar View Post
    Russia is clearly going to keep throwing away resources at this war. In my (armchair strategist) eyes, Ukraine's best bet is to wage a war of equipment attrition, leveraging the vastly superior manufacturing/stores of the West over Russia and the couple countries exploiting Russia's desperation.

    While it is not without risks to the individuals doing so, going in and knocking out the power to what arms manufacturing Russia still has works towards that overall goal.
    Why not blow up the arms factory instead?
    Seems much more long term effective and a lot less likely to piss off allies your relying on.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  4. #34964
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Why not blow up the arms factory instead?
    Seems much more long term effective and a lot less likely to piss off allies your relying on.
    Target within russia, bit problematic. We may not agree with it but in the end Ukraine cannot use western weapons within russia

  5. #34965
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Why not blow up the arms factory instead?
    Seems much more long term effective and a lot less likely to piss off allies your relying on.
    Sure, if they can do that directly, even better. It's likely even, given Russia's ongoing failures. Taking out a whole factory likely requires more ordinance, which could be used on ships/artillery/anti-air/supply depots instead, however, while a small team of saboteurs could take out the weaker supply lines fueling the factory. Power, water, materials, roads, etc.

  6. #34966
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Why not blow up the arms factory instead?
    "Why not both?"

    Specifically their drone army are also "...taking the war inside Russia. One aim is to hit military factories in an effort to disrupt whole supply chains. Recent examples include an attack on a facility that produces decalin, a fuel additive essential for rockets, and a plant that makes circuitry for Kinzhal and Iskander missiles."
    https://www.economist.com/briefing/2...my-and-society

  7. #34967
    They should also be prioritizing ball bearing factories,no one really thinks about them,but they are in damn near everything that moves and critically important.

  8. #34968
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanrefni View Post
    They should also be prioritizing ball bearing factories,no one really thinks about them,but they are in damn near everything that moves and critically important.
    Didn't russia already pretty much ran out of those? Their own production is laughable and of inferior quality.

  9. #34969
    Quote Originally Posted by Lanrefni View Post
    They should also be prioritizing ball bearing factories,no one really thinks about them,but they are in damn near everything that moves and critically important.
    One caught on fire 9 days ago.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarV...ire_in_samara/

  10. #34970
    Quote Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
    Excellent.

  11. #34971
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanrefni View Post
    They should also be prioritizing ball bearing factories,no one really thinks about them,but they are in damn near everything that moves and critically important.
    ...I think it's a rather safe bet that something like that might have come up once or twice by now.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  12. #34972
    It was a pretty big week for the Ukrainians on the battlefield and the briefing rooms.
    Some highlights.

    First off being the already mentioned massive strike on the headquarters of the Black Sea fleet, in which Russia admits that one person was injured, while Ukraine says they eliminated several dozen high ranking officials. Take a look at the clip to decide for yourself what is more likely to be the truth.
    This morning they have a struck yet another target in Crimea, all in effort to severly weaken Russian logistics. Really getting value out of those Stormshadows.

    Good news from Canada and Demark, both announcing new aid packages.
    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has announced several support measures for Ukraine, including military, economic and humanitarian assistance, while also pledging an additional show of diplomatic backing through steps intended to punish Russia over the war.
    The US, unfortuately is not pledging as much as the president wanted, still announced another multimillion dollar package and on top of the first group of the long awaited M1 Abrams arriving this week, they will also deliver ATACTMS, though at nearly a million dollars a missile, probably not that many. Still, its a huge boost, going from donating weapons and amour from the junk drawer to actual modern equipment.

    Lavrov has been making rounds, and rubbishing Ukraines latest peace plan and new grain deal.
    Russian FM says West entered direct war against Moscow
    Western powers through their support to Ukraine have effectively entered direct war against Moscow, Lavrov told a news conference at the United Nations.

    “You can call it anything you want, but they are fighting with us, they are straight-up fighting with us. We call it a hybrid war, but that doesn’t change things,” he said.
    (if only, eh?)
    Heavy weapons supplied by the west in the fierce battle raging outside Bakhmut are inflicting “hell” on Russian enemy lines, Ukraine has claimed.

    The claims come amid reports Kyiv’s army has broken through Russian lines in the Zaporizhzhia region, according to the general leading the southern counteroffensive.

    On Saturday, Russia’s foreign minister Sergei Lavrov rubbished Ukraine’s 10 point peace plan and said the conflict would be resolved on the battlefield if the west stuck with it.

    He also dismissed the west as an “empire of lies” and said the latest U.N. proposals to revive the Black Sea grain initiative would not fly because they do not deliver on promises he says were made to Moscow.
    Finally, Ukraine said they have broken the lines at Verbove, the second line of Russian defence in the south, and a location the Russians had reinforced with thousands of troops just last week in order to defend it.
    Ukrainian forces have broken through in Verbove, top general says
    CNN

    The general leading Ukraine’s counteroffensive along the southern front line says his forces have broken through in Verbove – and predicts an even bigger breakthrough to come.

    “On the left flank [near Verbove] we have a breakthrough and we continue to advance further,” Oleksandr Tarnavsky told CNN Senior International Correspondent Frederik Pleitgen during an interview on Friday, though he conceded his troops were moving slower than anticipated.

    “Not as fast as it was expected, not like in the movies about the Second World War,” he said. “The main thing is not to lose this initiative (that we have). And, well, not to lose it in practice, with actions.”

  13. #34973
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    The problem has been that if there's one thing Russian military leaders are good at, it's defensive lines designed for attrition. They became very good at them out of necessity vs. the Germans in WW2 particularly in the famous battle of Kursk, and the strategy has been fairly similar with multiple layers of defensive lines, thick minefields, tank traps, with reinforcements behind them to counter-attack. In hindsight there might have been too much of a delay before the offensive since now the occupied areas Ukraine is trying to reclaim are a bloody crawl. It helped the Soviets counter an expansionist aggressor in WW2, but the same strategy has been useful this year for Russia to hold areas they've grabbed.

    That's also been one bit of feedback to Western military leaders from Ukraine - that too much of the Western equipment and strategy is still geared towards the counter-insurgency conflicts of the past 25 years. They tell that them this is very different, this is much more like WW1 Verdun trench warfare or WW2 Kursk. I think that is being realized now both from this conflict and the increasing risks in Asia, but it takes a while for the defense spending and strategy to catch-up to the changing world.

  14. #34974
    Quote Originally Posted by Biglog View Post
    The problem has been that if there's one thing Russian military leaders are good at, it's defensive lines designed for attrition. They became very good at them out of necessity vs. the Germans in WW2 particularly in the famous battle of Kursk, and the strategy has been fairly similar with multiple layers of defensive lines, thick minefields, tank traps, with reinforcements behind them to counter-attack. In hindsight there might have been too much of a delay before the offensive since now the occupied areas Ukraine is trying to reclaim are a bloody crawl. It helped the Soviets counter an expansionist aggressor in WW2, but the same strategy has been useful this year for Russia to hold areas they've grabbed.

    That's also been one bit of feedback to Western military leaders from Ukraine - that too much of the Western equipment and strategy is still geared towards the counter-insurgency conflicts of the past 25 years. They tell that them this is very different, this is much more like WW1 Verdun trench warfare or WW2 Kursk. I think that is being realized now both from this conflict and the increasing risks in Asia, but it takes a while for the defense spending and strategy to catch-up to the changing world.
    Nobody has fought a conventional integrated arms total war (in the Clausewitzian definition of one) between two industrialized nations with near-peer capabilities since really the Korean War.

    A conflict between NATO and Russia or generally any military modeled on the Russian one (the Chinese one still very much is, even tho the Chinese are trying hard to move away from that) would also not be a real near-peer war.

    Nobody really realized just how much far ahead did NATO pull in air-power and precision weaponry. NATO was built around air superiority and we assumed the Russians compensated via air defenses, but the reality is, that in a NATO-Russian war, any force concentration of above 12 dudes in a bush would be vaporized by precision weaponry launched from beyond the reach of Russian artillery and air defenses and we also know that the Russians wouldn't be able to intercept much if anything.

    Mines are definitely an issue tho that NATO has slept on to some extent. But the bigger issue seems to be the UNIVERSAL consensus coming from Western volunteers with military background, who fought in Ukraine and came back is that EVERYONE slept on the drones issue and there's simply no NATO infantry/armor training of any kind on any level from special forces to basic or anywhere in between that have taken into account drone directed artillery, suicide drones, squad level drone observation (not just you using them, but the idea that the enemy might be using them too), just having fucking grenade dropped on you from a drone etc.

  15. #34975
    The Armenians are abandoning Karabakh after Russia's complete incompetence to enforce the 2022 agreement. Even for the most pro Russian account this signals the fall of Russia as a regional power, where Turkey-backed Azerbaijan gets to dictate terms in its periphery
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2023-09-24 at 12:47 PM.

  16. #34976
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The Armenians are abandoning Karabakh after Russia's complete incompetence to enforce the 2022 agreement. Even for the most pro Tussian account this signals the fall of Russia as a regional power, where Turkey-backed Azerbaijan gets to dictate terms in its periphery
    Former superpower, former regional power Russia under glorious leader Vladimir Pootsie.

    Ouch.

  17. #34977

  18. #34978
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    And heres a horrible story that may sound familiar - it was predicted to happen a year ago.


    Members here saw this coming a mile away - serves the Russian Army right.
    Godspeed russian convicts, godspeed.

    Right, serious face, I don't rejoice (too) much about this, but yeah you could see this coming a mile away.

  19. #34979
    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    It was a pretty big week for the Ukrainians on the battlefield and the briefing rooms.
    Some highlights.

    First off being the already mentioned massive strike on the headquarters of the Black Sea fleet, in which Russia admits that one person was injured, while Ukraine says they eliminated several dozen high ranking officials. Take a look at the clip to decide for yourself what is more likely to be the truth.
    This morning they have a struck yet another target in Crimea, all in effort to severly weaken Russian logistics. Really getting value out of those Stormshadows.

    Good news from Canada and Demark, both announcing new aid packages.


    The US, unfortuately is not pledging as much as the president wanted, still announced another multimillion dollar package and on top of the first group of the long awaited M1 Abrams arriving this week, they will also deliver ATACTMS, though at nearly a million dollars a missile, probably not that many. Still, its a huge boost, going from donating weapons and amour from the junk drawer to actual modern equipment.

    Lavrov has been making rounds, and rubbishing Ukraines latest peace plan and new grain deal.

    (if only, eh?)


    Finally, Ukraine said they have broken the lines at Verbove, the second line of Russian defence in the south, and a location the Russians had reinforced with thousands of troops just last week in order to defend it.
    Is Lavrov wanting a war with the West?

  20. #34980
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Is Lavrov wanting a war with the West?
    There's a good chance his boss does, yes. Not a "NATO invades and does regime change in Russia" war, but enough perception of NATO involvement that when Putin pulls back to Russian pre-war borders (or something very close to them) he can play pretend and say "I fought all of NATO to a draw".

    Would that be a lie? Yes. Would it make any positive difference for Russia as a country or the Russian people? No. Putin doesn't care. This war was never for Russia's benefit, it has only ever been intended for Putin's benefit.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

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