1. #34981
    Quote Originally Posted by alach View Post
    It was a pretty big week for the Ukrainians on the battlefield and the briefing rooms.
    Some highlights.

    First off being the already mentioned massive strike on the headquarters of the Black Sea fleet, in which Russia admits that one person was injured, while Ukraine says they eliminated several dozen high ranking officials. Take a look at the clip to decide for yourself what is more likely to be the truth.
    This morning they have a struck yet another target in Crimea, all in effort to severly weaken Russian logistics. Really getting value out of those Stormshadows.

    Good news from Canada and Demark, both announcing new aid packages.


    The US, unfortuately is not pledging as much as the president wanted, still announced another multimillion dollar package and on top of the first group of the long awaited M1 Abrams arriving this week, they will also deliver ATACTMS, though at nearly a million dollars a missile, probably not that many. Still, its a huge boost, going from donating weapons and amour from the junk drawer to actual modern equipment.

    Lavrov has been making rounds, and rubbishing Ukraines latest peace plan and new grain deal.

    (if only, eh?)


    Finally, Ukraine said they have broken the lines at Verbove, the second line of Russian defence in the south, and a location the Russians had reinforced with thousands of troops just last week in order to defend it.
    Is Lavrov wanting a war with the West?

  2. #34982
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    The Silk Road
    Posts
    9,409
    Quote Originally Posted by Fuiking View Post
    Is Lavrov wanting a war with the West?
    There's a good chance his boss does, yes. Not a "NATO invades and does regime change in Russia" war, but enough perception of NATO involvement that when Putin pulls back to Russian pre-war borders (or something very close to them) he can play pretend and say "I fought all of NATO to a draw".

    Would that be a lie? Yes. Would it make any positive difference for Russia as a country or the Russian people? No. Putin doesn't care. This war was never for Russia's benefit, it has only ever been intended for Putin's benefit.
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  3. #34983
    Timothy Snyder, who I quite respect, often talks about how the European Union is a post colonial project that was born to a large degree out of colonial powers losing colonial wars, in the sense that losing this war might be Russia's "post colonial" moment, where it might finally adopt the European model.

    But I honestly think Snyder is being too optimistic/naive about Russia here. Russia's post colonial moment should have been 1991, that was the Western expectation, and there were a few hints between 2000 and 2008-ish that Russia was moving in that direction, but the 15 years since should have killed that delusion.

    The West needs a long term Russia policy/plan. Russia will inevitably lose, question is when and how badly, but it will lose. And realistically what will follow won't be a Russia seeking to mend fences, but one that will despise the West, its former subject nations, pretty much everyone around them, and in all likelihood, itself (stab in the back excuse).

    We will need a plan for dealing with that Russia. I still get the feeling that in most Western capitals, the US, EU etc people still think that once the war is over, Russia is just going to magically become "normal again" (it was never normal and won't magically become normal).

  4. #34984
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    18,769
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    But I honestly think Snyder is being too optimistic/naive about Russia here. Russia's post colonial moment should have been 1991
    They've had a lot of moments going back to Tsushima and beyond.
    /s

  5. #34985
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    They've had a lot of moments going back to Tsushima and beyond.
    Losing a war and some territory to another emergent colonial power isn't exactly the same as literally losing your colonies to independence movements. Russia (in the form of the USSR and even to some extent the Russian Federation) held onto it's colonies quite a bit longer than any other colonial empire really. For France the reality check was Vietnam/Algeria, for the UK it was the loss of India, for the Dutch it was the loss of Indonesia, for Portugal it was the loss of Angola, Mozambique, Guinea-Bissau etc.

    By the 1970's the last European colonial empires were defunct. Co-incidentally it was around the same time most European powers both continental and the British started looking more towards the European community concept to replace the loss of trade. Snyder got that bit right.

    The same happened to Russia in '91. And Russia also, briefly, started looking towards European integration. The divergence happened when the Russians realized that economic integration came with cultural and legal strings attached...goofy things like an independent judiciary, a transparent economy, human rights andwith that the Russians went "Fuck that" and instead tried to create their own parallel "multi-polar" world where they could call the shots, and be accountable to no one. They also started drinking their own Kool-Aid about "Russia Stronk".

    We've also seen elements of this mentality in the rhetoric around Brexit, something the Russian invested in heavily. This imperial revanchism and rejection of belonging to multi-lateral open and equal systems. And we also see it in the MAGA crowd...another thing the Russians invested in heavily.
    Last edited by Elder Millennial; 2023-09-24 at 10:21 PM.

  6. #34986
    Russia has been pushing the 'we're at war with NATO' thing for a while, including repeated claims to have found dead service members from NATO members - and never providing proof of course. They need to push this to save face - they can't admit that they are loosing to Ukraine whom they have long claimed are inferior subhumans.

    Meanwhile over on russia state propaganda, a interview with a russian soldier revealed that the 150ths division medical unit is receiving 100-150 wounded every day from defending Bakhmut. That's just from Bakhmut and that is only those that make it there. Given what we know of russian medical care, there will be plenty more that don't make it and it also means they are probably loosing 50-100 dead a day just trying to hold onto pootie's only propaganda win. And half the defenders of Bakhmut are the VDV and Spetznaz, so their 'elite' is suffering heavily.

  7. #34987
    Apparently Russia has put an arrest warrant on the highest judges of the ICC. Because you know, catching russians red-handed in war crimes is against the law in Russia.

  8. #34988
    Quote Originally Posted by Saradain View Post
    Apparently Russia has put an arrest warrant on the highest judges of the ICC. Because you know, catching russians red-handed in war crimes is against the law in Russia.
    Putin: Reverse Uno, bitches!

  9. #34989
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Putin: Reverse Uno, bitches!
    Never seen such a pokerface copying every move (except winning ones) in return. What was the cringe saying again...? "I am the only thinking being in the world, everyone else is a sheep." That starts to make sense when looking at russians. They could get anally raped by a rusty gardenfork sideways, and they'd still claim they're winning, with an unwavering pokerface.

  10. #34990
    Quote Originally Posted by Elder Millennial View Post
    By the 1970's the last European colonial empires were defunct. Co-incidentally it was around the same time most European powers both continental and the British started looking more towards the European community concept to replace the loss of trade. Snyder got that bit right.
    That might have been part of it, the main thing behind the European project was to avoid inner conflicts after two world wars.

  11. #34991
    Quote Originally Posted by diller View Post
    That might have been part of it, the main thing behind the European project was to avoid inner conflicts after two world wars.
    At least in the case of the British and the Dutch the European community was orders of magnitude more about trade, access to new markets and resources than it was any desire for peace.

    Especially the British resisted the whole EU project until the very last minute they could until it became economically unsustainable.
    Last edited by Elder Millennial; 2023-09-26 at 09:04 AM.

  12. #34992
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    2,861
    Frankentanks round 2?

    I dunno, I really feel russia is jumping the shark here...

  13. #34993
    So apparently the Black Sea Fleet got attacked because the Russian officers hadn't been paid, so they sold intel to Ukraine:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...-report-2023-9

  14. #34994
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Frankentanks round 2?

    I dunno, I really feel russia is jumping the shark here...
    WH40k Orks would be proud of these deathtraps.

  15. #34995
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    2,861
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    WH40k Orks would be proud of these deathtraps.
    I don't know I think a Mekboy would almost be ashamed of it.

  16. #34996
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    I don't know I think a Mekboy would almost be ashamed of it.
    Only because they didnt paint them red.

  17. #34997
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
    3+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    2,677
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    So apparently the Black Sea Fleet got attacked because the Russian officers hadn't been paid, so they sold intel to Ukraine:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...-report-2023-9
    You can't make this shit up haha

  18. #34998
    Herald of the Titans Iphie's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Suomi/Nederland
    Posts
    2,861
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    You can't make this shit up haha
    Well you can, but the fact that nobody would be surprised if it's true speaks volumes.

  19. #34999
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    So apparently the Black Sea Fleet got attacked because the Russian officers hadn't been paid, so they sold intel to Ukraine:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...-report-2023-9
    The best thing is, even if it isn't true. Someone high up in the Russian military will be found guilty either way because the people investigating it will be found guilty if they don't find someone guilty.

  20. #35000
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Neverland Ranch Survivor
    Posts
    7,035
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    The best thing is, even if it isn't true. Someone high up in the Russian military will be found guilty either way because the people investigating it will be found guilty if they don't find someone guilty.
    So the people who maybe qualified and in a position of power will be found guilty and "removed", most likely via window into food poisoning, allowing an incompetent yesman to fill the spot?

    *yawn* I maybe tired, but I'm not tired of the winning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •