1. #35141
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Are we apathetic now to suffering? It feels like the mentioned incident trending all over the news of Russia's murdering of 50+ innocent people in one attack was just glossed over.
    It's a war. Awful shit happens in a war. Especially when one side has already proven not to be above war crimes. And frankly, "bombed civllians" ranks pretty fucking low on the scale of wartime atrocities. What do you want us to do? Shake our fingers and condemn Russia? We're doing that already. Most people don't treat every single act of infamy as a fresh, uniquely heinous horror to be agonized over and dwelt upon for days.
    Last edited by DarkTZeratul; 2023-10-06 at 06:27 AM.

  2. #35142
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Surely no-one really believes this?

    "Putin claims Prigozhin’s plane crashed because the Wagner leadership got drunk and/or high, then set off hand grenades during the flight.

    Seems legit, definitely no further questions about that incident, we can all move on"


    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status...84130207793279
    Current assessment by the US DoD is that the cause of the crash is it was likely an internal explosion by a bomb on the plane, for the record.

    Nobody especially outside of Russia seriously believes Putin didn’t have the guy killed, this is just an attempt to deflect blame as to what the cause of that explosion were.

  3. #35143
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    Are we apathetic now to suffering? It feels like the mentioned incident trending all over the news of Russia's murdering of 50+ innocent people in one attack was just glossed over.
    You're the one constantly complaining that this war isn't "entertaining enough" for you. You're the heartless and apathetic cretin here feigning outrage and concern.

  4. #35144
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    It's a war. Awful shit happens in a war. Especially when one side has already proven not to be above war crimes. And frankly, "bombed civllians" ranks pretty fucking low on the scale of wartime atrocities. What do you want us to do? Shake our fingers and condemn Russia? We're doing that already. Most people don't treat every single act of infamy as a fresh, uniquely heinous horror to be agonized over and dwelt upon for days.
    He wants us to demand WW3 so he can die in it and take the rest of us with him.

  5. #35145
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    He wants us to demand WW3 so he can die in it and take the rest of us with him.
    Nah, I'm good with not blowing up...(not so much with russia invading but not spilling over is good.)

  6. #35146
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Current assessment by the US DoD is that the cause of the crash is it was likely an internal explosion by a bomb on the plane, for the record.

    Nobody especially outside of Russia seriously believes Putin didn’t have the guy killed, this is just an attempt to deflect blame as to what the cause of that explosion were.
    My question was somewhat rhetorical, although I must admit I did wonder if our departed Russia apologist is now furiously typing away "But... but.. they were drunk... and hand grenade" in some corner of the internet.

    I disagree that it is an attempt to deflect blame.

    It comes across as far more sinister than that.

    The whole idea is preposterous! Putin knows it is preposterous, he also knows that everyone else knows it preposterous.

    Rather than being a denial, it is admission that he was behind it and a warning to those who might think about crossing him.

  7. #35147
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    It's a war. Awful shit happens in a war. Especially when one side has already proven not to be above war crimes. And frankly, "bombed civllians" ranks pretty fucking low on the scale of wartime atrocities. What do you want us to do? Shake our fingers and condemn Russia? We're doing that already. Most people don't treat every single act of infamy as a fresh, uniquely heinous horror to be agonized over and dwelt upon for days.
    The problem with this is this mindset is exactly what fosters apathy to what's going on.
    "Truth...justice, honor, freedom! Vain indulgences, every one(...) I know what I want, and I take it. I take advantage of whatever I can, and discard that which I cannot. There is no room for sentiment or guilt."

  8. #35148
    Quote Originally Posted by YUPPIE View Post
    The problem with this is this mindset is exactly what fosters apathy to what's going on.
    No it's people like you treating conflict like this like its some kind of action movie is what fosters apathy.

  9. #35149
    Hm... There are now reports that N. Korea is sending some artillery (previously they have sent artillery shells) to Russia - unknown what N. Korea gets in exchange; and how S. Korea will react - there has already been some signs that attacks on civilians might cause S. Korea to start supplying offensive weapons.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/north-...ized-from-iran

    As previously noted N. Korea has a lot of artillery - and even if not modern it may be better than the old ones Russia are taking out from storage (Russia is also building a few new ones leading to a two-tier force).

  10. #35150
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    Hm... There are now reports that N. Korea is sending some artillery (previously they have sent artillery shells) to Russia - unknown what N. Korea gets in exchange; and how S. Korea will react - there has already been some signs that attacks on civilians might cause S. Korea to start supplying offensive weapons.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/north-...ized-from-iran

    As previously noted N. Korea has a lot of artillery - and even if not modern it may be better than the old ones Russia are taking out from storage (Russia is also building a few new ones leading to a two-tier force).
    It's rather embarrassing IMO, for a nation with the resources and industry capacity(if not capability) of Russia, to be soliciting help from N Korea.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  11. #35151
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    It's rather embarrassing IMO, for a nation with the resources and industry capacity(if not capability) of Russia, to be soliciting help from N Korea.
    This whole war has been nothing but a serie of embarassements for Russia.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  12. #35152
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    It's rather embarrassing IMO, for a nation with the resources and industry capacity(if not capability) of Russia, to be soliciting help from N Korea.
    A result of decades of soviet mentality. Could reform the country after the collapse of USSR, but nah. Better to be fully dependable on fossil fuels export, allow corruption to run rampant, keep strong-arming your neighbours and perceive West as enemies. And now we see the results of it.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2023-10-07 at 01:22 PM.
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  13. #35153
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    A result of decades of soviet mentality. Could reform the country after the collapse of USSR, but nah. Better to be fully dependable on fossil fuels export, allow corruption to run rampant, keep strong-arming your neighbours and perceive West as enemies. And now we see the results of it.
    Could have, but the person that floated to the top was not in that mindset. There was another contender, who conveniently died just before the presidential elections around 2000, who did say that russia would need two generations to become a functional democracy. But then putin happened.

  14. #35154
    Quote Originally Posted by Iphie View Post
    Could have, but the person that floated to the top was not in that mindset. There was another contender, who conveniently died just before the presidential elections around 2000, who did say that russia would need two generations to become a functional democracy. But then putin happened.
    Russian democracy was long dead even before Putin happened. The last pretending of any real democracy happened when Yeltsin ordered tanks to shoot at the Russian Whitehouse which housed the legislative of the Russian state at the time.

  15. #35155
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Russian democracy was long dead even before Putin happened. The last pretending of any real democracy happened when Yeltsin ordered tanks to shoot at the Russian Whitehouse which housed the legislative of the Russian state at the time.
    My point is: Putin didn't help and there were people who might have made the difference who got eliminated in the 90's.

  16. #35156
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Russian democracy was long dead even before Putin happened. The last pretending of any real democracy happened when Yeltsin ordered tanks to shoot at the Russian Whitehouse which housed the legislative of the Russian state at the time.
    This is a rather gross misunderstanding of what actually happened in 1993 during the October Coup.

    Unfortunately, if Yeltsin didn't do what he did, we would've had this whole war much sooner. The Congress of People's Deputies held practically absolute power (literally the power to decide on "any questions within jurisdiction of the Russian Federation"), including the ability to rewrite the Constitution at will, as it and the Supreme Soviet (members of which were formed from the Congress) were essentially the same institutions as they were under USSR, with the President being only a few years old position. Yeltsin previously tried to limit its power but his proposition was rejected, obviously.

    At the time the Congress was headed by exactly the kind of irredentists (and in some cases you can drop "kind") that we can see today foaming from their mouths about Ukronazis, NATO etc. If you look on the wiki page under Political Support you will see that Yeltsin's opponents were Communists, Nationalists, Monarchists, National Bolsheviks (whose flag is a black hammer-and-sickle in a white circle on red, such subtlety) and Russian National Unity. The Vice President Alexander Rutskoy (declared the acting president by the Congress during the crisis) fully supported the invasion of Ukraine both at the time and now. They also were the first to resort to violence and called on their supporters to engage in violence against the President. The Russian Liberals at the time almost fully supported Yeltsin's actions, because the alternative was worse, despite his actions being unconstitutional (again, the Constitution was like playdough for the Congress).

    No, what really killed our democracy was Yeltsin's further reforms and him making the President a much more powerful position. Even then, it was Putin who fully exploited it and made the situation worse. Yeltsin may have stabbed the democracy but it was Putin who turned off the life support.

  17. #35157
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Russian democracy was long dead even before Putin happened. The last pretending of any real democracy happened when Yeltsin ordered tanks to shoot at the Russian Whitehouse which housed the legislative of the Russian state at the time.
    My memory is a bit hazy and I honestly can't be arsed to check now, but wasn't the Duma actually trying to coup Yeltsin there?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladier View Post
    sip.
    Yeah, I remembered that the Duma, or whatever it was called at the time, was doing some shady fuckery.

  18. #35158
    The Lightbringer Iphie's Avatar
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    This doesn't look like the smartest way to reload a Grad...

  19. #35159
    The Unstoppable Force Puupi's Avatar
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    The Finnish government will hold a press conference sometime later today. The subject is most likely that Russia sabotaged the Finnish-Estonian gas pipeline a couple of days ago.

    EDIT: here is an English article about it: https://yle.fi/a/74-20054419
    Last edited by Puupi; 2023-10-10 at 12:23 PM.
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  20. #35160
    https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/...1-91a3056e2995

    So the fucking Russians sabotaged the Baltic Connector gas pipeline between Finland and Estonia.

    I propose we blow up the Ryssä's consulate in Åland with some JASSMs as payback.

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