Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Makabreska]

It's rather embarrassing IMO, for a nation with the resources and industry capacity(if not capability) of Russia, to be soliciting help from N Korea.

A result of decades of soviet mentality. Could reform the country after the collapse of USSR, but nah. Better to be fully dependable on fossil fuels export, allow corruption to run rampant, keep strong-arming your neighbours and perceive West as enemies. And now we see the results of it.

[Iphie]

A result of decades of soviet mentality. Could reform the country after the collapse of USSR, but nah. Better to be fully dependable on fossil fuels export, allow corruption to run rampant, keep strong-arming your neighbours and perceive West as enemies. And now we see the results of it.

Could have, but the person that floated to the top was not in that mindset. There was another contender, who conveniently died just before the presidential elections around 2000, who did say that russia would need two generations to become a functional democracy. But then putin happened.

[Kallisto]

Could have, but the person that floated to the top was not in that mindset. There was another contender, who conveniently died just before the presidential elections around 2000, who did say that russia would need two generations to become a functional democracy. But then putin happened.

Russian democracy was long dead even before Putin happened. The last pretending of any real democracy happened when Yeltsin ordered tanks to shoot at the Russian Whitehouse which housed the legislative of the Russian state at the time.

[Iphie]

Russian democracy was long dead even before Putin happened. The last pretending of any real democracy happened when Yeltsin ordered tanks to shoot at the Russian Whitehouse which housed the legislative of the Russian state at the time.

My point is: Putin didn't help and there were people who might have made the difference who got eliminated in the 90's.

[Vladier]

Russian democracy was long dead even before Putin happened. The last pretending of any real democracy happened when Yeltsin ordered tanks to shoot at the Russian Whitehouse which housed the legislative of the Russian state at the time.

This is a rather gross misunderstanding of what actually happened in 1993 during the October Coup.

Unfortunately, if Yeltsin didn't do what he did, we would've had this whole war much sooner. The Congress of People's Deputies held practically absolute power (literally the power to decide on "any questions within jurisdiction of the Russian Federation"), including the ability to rewrite the Constitution at will, as it and the Supreme Soviet (members of which were formed from the Congress) were essentially the same institutions as they were under USSR, with the President being only a few years old position. Yeltsin previously tried to limit its power but his proposition was rejected, obviously.

At the time the Congress was headed by exactly the kind of irredentists (and in some cases you can drop "kind") that we can see today foaming from their mouths about Ukronazis, NATO etc. If you look on the wiki page under Political Support you will see that Yeltsin's opponents were Communists, Nationalists, Monarchists, National Bolsheviks (whose flag is a black hammer-and-sickle in a white circle on red, such subtlety) and Russian National Unity. The Vice President Alexander Rutskoy (declared the acting president by the Congress during the crisis) fully supported the invasion of Ukraine both at the time and now. They also were the first to resort to violence and called on their supporters to engage in violence against the President. The Russian Liberals at the time almost fully supported Yeltsin's actions, because the alternative was worse, despite his actions being unconstitutional (again, the Constitution was like playdough for the Congress).

No, what really killed our democracy was Yeltsin's further reforms and him making the President a much more powerful position. Even then, it was Putin who fully exploited it and made the situation worse. Yeltsin may have stabbed the democracy but it was Putin who turned off the life support.

[Elder Millennial]

Russian democracy was long dead even before Putin happened. The last pretending of any real democracy happened when Yeltsin ordered tanks to shoot at the Russian Whitehouse which housed the legislative of the Russian state at the time.

My memory is a bit hazy and I honestly can't be arsed to check now, but wasn't the Duma actually trying to coup Yeltsin there?

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sip.

Yeah, I remembered that the Duma, or whatever it was called at the time, was doing some shady fuckery.

[Iphie]

This doesn't look like the smartest way to reload a Grad...

[Puupi]

The Finnish government will hold a press conference sometime later today. The subject is most likely that Russia sabotaged the Finnish-Estonian gas pipeline a couple of days ago.

EDIT: here is an English article about it: https://yle.fi/a/74-20054419

[Gabriel]

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/...1-91a3056e2995

So the fucking Russians sabotaged the Baltic Connector gas pipeline between Finland and Estonia.

I propose we blow up the Ryssä's consulate in Åland with some JASSMs as payback.

[Puupi]

The press conference will be held at 16.30 CEST.

Also, they've now located the damaged part of the pipeline. A network cable was damaged, too.

[Gorsameth]

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/...1-91a3056e2995

So the fucking Russians sabotaged the Baltic Connector gas pipeline between Finland and Estonia.

I propose we blow up the Ryssä's consulate in Åland with some JASSMs as payback.

something something article 5

[Iphie]

https://www.iltalehti.fi/politiikka/...1-91a3056e2995

So the fucking Russians sabotaged the Baltic Connector gas pipeline between Finland and Estonia.

I propose we blow up the Ryssä's consulate in Åland with some JASSMs as payback.

WHY do they have a consulate in Ahvenanmaa? Also, no, let's not.

[Elder Millennial]

Russia really exploiting this cover they are getting from Israel.

Welcome to the multi-polar world. It's fun isn't it?

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WHY do they have a consulate in Ahvenanmaa? Also, no, let's not.

Google Aland War.

It's fucking retarded.

[Gabriel]

WHY do they have a consulate in Ahvenanmaa?

Because we are a nation of cowards.

Also, no, let's not.

Yes, let's.

[Puupi]

Newest info about the gasline thing is that the hole in the gaspipe is in Finnish territory and the damaged data cable is in Estonian territory. So they are not right next to each other.

[Iphie]

Russia really exploiting this cover they are getting from Israel.

Welcome to the multi-polar world. It's fun isn't it?

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Google Aland War.

It's fucking retarded.

I'm familiar with the history, I just question why it hasn't been closed in the last two years. Then again, as you say, it is somewhat of a mess.

Newest info about the gasline thing is that the hole in the gaspipe is in Finnish territory and the damaged data cable is in Estonian territory. So they are not right next to each other.

Odd, you'd think they wouldn't bother with two different locations. just one boom or dragging of an anchor. Also, if I read it correctly it's in the economic zones, not the territories proper so that's a bit separated.

That's assuming they run parallel of course...

[Puupi]

The same Russian ship (Sibiriakov) that was spotted near the Nord Stream pipe when it was blown up was seen near the Finnish-Estonian pipeline just before the pipe got damaged.

A Finnish article: https://www.verkkouutiset.fi/a/suome...n-rajahdyksia/

[Saradain]

Build a...wall in the Baltic Sea...and make Russia pay for it!

Cut sea access out of Baltic Sea, cease any land routes from and to Kaliningrad as Russia simply cannot play nice (which was never a realistic hope anyway).

Perhaps one day we'll learn for real that Russia is unsuitable to exist along other nations in its current form?

[Wilian]

Russia really exploiting this cover they are getting from Israel.

Welcome to the multi-polar world. It's fun isn't it?

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Google Aland War.

It's fucking retarded.

No. Demilitarization is due to Åland war and it was imposed by British so Russia, who controlled Åland at the time wouldn't build fortifications there. Finland inherited that international agreement upon gaining independence and the treaty was reaffirmed by UK, US, France and other great powers of the time. The consulate is a state agreement between Soviet Union and Finland after 1940.

[Makabreska]

Since when did adbots start spamming posts in the politics section?

Isn't this like a prime environment? Political trolls are after all used widely nowadays.