Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Voidism]

You can't have a "peace agreement" with someone that wants your entire country dead. That shit is fucking stupid.

Especially one that keeps lying to everyone's face.

[Iphie]

Oh, and russia is demanding that other countries return weapons that they sold them. Yeah, no backsies.

Eh, what now?

[Muzjhath]

I don't disagree with that. I do believe that the initial goal of Russia was to conquer the whole of Ukraine, but they failed and Putin has given up on his ambitions to conquer the whole of Ukraine, he just wants the Russian-speaking parts now.. you know, where the people living in those parts are sympathetic towards Russia anyway.

So Kiev, as unless things have changed a lot the last 20 years that was very much a Russian speaking city...

[Corvus]

Lets not forget russia sees Ukrainian as simply an uncouth russian dialect so all of Ukraine is russian speaking according to them.

[Flarelaine]

So Kiev, as unless things have changed a lot the last 20 years that was very much a Russian speaking city...

Just what part of Ukraine is Russian-speaking has changed a lot in the last year alone. Former Russian speakers are discovering they prefer being Ukrainians to being peons of Moscow.

[Jessicka]

Lets not forget russia, among the very many other treaties it has broken, signed one with Chenchnya after getting wrecked. They then proceeded to rearm and invade again, murdering every single member of the Chechnyan side who had been part of the treaty signing.

Just a small portion of the treaties russia has signed and then broken;

UN Charter 45
Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty 70
Helsinki Accords 75
Belovezha Accords 91–92
Budapest Memo 94
Black Sea Fleet Treaty 97
Friendship Treaty 98
Treaty on Azov Sea & Kerch Strait ‘03
Karkiv pact ‘10
Paris Charter 90
Moldova-Russia treaty 94
OSCE Istanbul Document 99
Ukraine-Russia border treaty '03
Georgia-Russia agreement '08

And the 'wavering' western support in the last day or so has announced;
France pledging another $200 million in funding.
Germany pledging 100,000 120mm mortar rounds.
UK placing new sanctions on russian gold and oil.
Dutch sending 3 F16s to Romania for Ukrainian pilots to train on.
G7 pledging unwavering support and saying that all russia assets that are frozen will remain frozen until russia pays reparations.
Swedens defence minister says they are able to send Grippens to Ukraine, the decision to be mae once they are a member of NATO.
The EU is pushing ahead with allowing Ukraine and Moldava to join.
The EU says that Hungary will not be able to block providing Ukraine with $50 billion in funding over the next 4 years.

Oh, and russia is demanding that other countries return weapons that they sold them. Yeah, no backsies.

It's interesting, because in many ways it falling off the radar in many ways gives NATO an easier hand in offering what might have been more controversial support, like the fighter jets and cruise missiles. Remember, this is a NATO matter, and NATO absolutely do not want Russia in Ukraine, at all.

[Poopymonster]

Just what part of Ukraine is Russian-speaking has changed a lot in the last year alone. Former Russian speakers are discovering they prefer being Ukrainians to being peons of Moscow.

I'm pretty sure if we were to contact a majority of the Russian speakers currently in the Ukraine, we would need a Ouija board

[Forogil]

It's interesting, because in many ways it falling off the radar in many ways gives NATO an easier hand in offering what might have been more controversial support, like the fighter jets and cruise missiles. Remember, this is a NATO matter, and NATO absolutely do not want Russia in Ukraine, at all.

And Hopefully yes.
I'm also sure many NATO planners realize that having Ukraine destroy Russian equipment without risking the life of NATO-soldiers has certain advantages.

[Kaleredar]

And Hopefully yes.
I'm also sure many NATO planners realize that having Ukraine destroy Russian equipment without risking the life of NATO-soldiers has certain advantages.

This is another irksome component of the "but why should we care about Ukraine?" crowd in the US.

Setting aide that... you know, it's morally correct to help them not be killed by invading Russian orks. Even on the most base, cynical level, sending a pittance of change to destabilize one of the US' largest geopolitical rivals whilst risking absolutely zero American lives is the bargain of a lifetime. It's like a proxy war, except the other side doesn't have a proxy that they're funding; they're just dying for it.


I mean I ultimately understand why there are people saying "stop aiding Ukraine" in the US; it's because they've been told to think that the spending going to Ukraine is responsible for inflation or gas prices or other nonsensical notions... and they've been told that by conservative politicians either drawing a check directly from the Russian government or who don't like all the good press Biden and the democrats are getting for aiding Ukraine.

[TrueNeutral]

This is another irksome component of the "but why should we care about Ukraine?" crowd in the US.

Setting aide that... you know, it's morally correct to help them not be killed by invading Russian orks. Even on the most base, cynical level, sending a pittance of change to destabilize one of the US' largest geopolitical rivals whilst risking absolutely zero American lives is the bargain of a lifetime. It's like a proxy war, except the other side doesn't have a proxy that they're funding; they're just dying for it.


I mean I ultimately understand why there are people saying "stop aiding Ukraine" in the US; it's because they've been told to think that the spending going to Ukraine is responsible for inflation or gas prices or other nonsensical notions... and they've been told that by conservative politicians either drawing a check directly from the Russian government or who don't like all the good press Biden and the democrats are getting for aiding Ukraine.

The intention seems good, but prolonging an unwinnable war isn't helping Ukrainians not be killed, it's just prolonging their misery and more Ukrainians will die. Ukraine and the West should understand that there is no perfect solution, and should abandon their quest for a perfect solution. Perfect is the enemy of good. Sooner or later, Ukraine and their war backers from the West will have to begin talks with Russia (and vice versa). It was a huge mistake last year for the West to pressure Indonesia into disinviting Putin from attending the G-20 summit and talking about boycotting the summit if Putin attends when it was an opportunity for both sides to talk to each other.

The war could have been avoided if the West and Ukraine were more pragmatic. Instead of burning bridges with Russia, they should have built bridges with Russia. The talk of Ukraine joining NATO at Russia's expense, Ukraine's overthrowing of the democratically elected President Yanukovych and sanctions pushed Putin into a corner. USA invaded Iraq with impunity in 2003 and caused more damage to the Iraqi people than Russia did to Ukraine between 2014 and 2022, and they weren't sanctioned like Russia was, and US proved that might is right.

Why did Russia not invade other neighbors like Kazakhstan? Because they understood that pragmatism is important, especially having Russia as their neighbor, so they knew it's best not to ditch Russia.

It's the 21st century, there should be no more wars. The onus is on both sides to talk to each other and manage differences, which means compromises have to be made for the greater good.

[Shadowferal]

...snip

Wow, you've no idea what's going on...the idea is about containment.
Kind of amusing that NATO expanded its membership as a result, and Russia is falling into 3rd world country status. They thought they'd steamroll Ukraine in a matter of days...

[Edge-]

The intention seems good, but prolonging an unwinnable war isn't helping Ukrainians not be killed, it's just prolonging their misery and more Ukrainians will die.

There's always so much concern for the Ukrainians fighting and dying. Have you like...checked to see what they think about it compared to the alternative? Intentional or not, this is often a common tactic of pro-Russian folks engaging dishonest. Feigning concern for the poor Ukrainians who have no hope but to die as things stand.

Ukraine and the West should understand that there is no perfect solution, and should abandon their quest for a perfect solution. Perfect is the enemy of good. Sooner or later, Ukraine and their war backers from the West will have to begin talks with Russia (and vice versa). It was a huge mistake last year for the West to pressure Indonesia into disinviting Putin from attending the G-20 summit and talking about boycotting the summit if Putin attends when it was an opportunity for both sides to talk to each other.

Damn, has Russia tried...not invading a sovereign nation for funzies? That's generally a good way to get ostracized by the international community no matter who you are. Miss me with Putin's crocodile tears he can't hang out with the cool kids.

The war could have been avoided if the West and Ukraine were more pragmatic. Instead of burning bridges with Russia, they should have built bridges with Russia.

Wow, this like, literally flies in the face of all recent history. I'm a bit too tired to start digging into it but...damn. How would they have avoided Russia "invading Ukraine to remove Nazis"?

The talk of Ukraine joining NATO at Russia's expense, Ukraine's overthrowing of the democratically elected President Yanukovych and sanctions pushed Putin into a corner.

How dare a sovereign nation discuss strategic alliances that are in its benefit. Has Russia ever considered why so many of the former USSR vassal states have sought outside alliances? It's strange, da? Miss me with the Russian stooge getting tossed out though.

USA invaded Iraq with impunity in 2003 and caused more damage to the Iraqi people than Russia did to Ukraine between 2014 and 2022, and they weren't sanctioned like Russia was, and US proved that might is right.

It was wrong and it shouldn't have happened. But the US actually built a coalition and some support before going in, even under some bullshit pretenses, not that it's much of a justification for an unjust war. Not sure how that excuses what Russia is doing today though.

Why did Russia not invade other neighbors like Kazakhstan? Because they understood that pragmatism is important, especially having Russia as their neighbor, so they knew it's best not to ditch Russia.

I don't think pragmatism is high on the priority list for a nation that's struggled with supplies during the war because of rampant corruption. Nor that pragmatism was high on their priority list when they decided to invade Ukraine as we've seen that turned out to be a pretty poor decision.

It's the 21st century, there should be no more wars. The onus is on both sides to talk to each other and manage differences, which means compromises have to be made for the greater good.

Excellent, tell Russia to withdraw their troops from all of Ukraine's territory, including Crimea, and fuck off back home. Then we have no more war and everyone is happy.

- - - Updated - - -

Kind of amusing that NATO expanded its membership as a result, and Russia is falling into 3rd world country status. They thought they'd steamroll Ukraine in a matter of days...

I'm half waiting for the totally serious, "Not one step eastward!" claim to rear its head.

[Gabriel]

The intention seems good, but prolonging an unwinnable war isn't helping Ukrainians not be killed, it's just prolonging their misery and more Ukrainians will die. Ukraine and the West should understand that there is no perfect solution, and should abandon their quest for a perfect solution. Perfect is the enemy of good. Sooner or later, Ukraine and their war backers from the West will have to begin talks with Russia (and vice versa). It was a huge mistake last year for the West to pressure Indonesia into disinviting Putin from attending the G-20 summit and talking about boycotting the summit if Putin attends when it was an opportunity for both sides to talk to each other.

The war could have been avoided if the West and Ukraine were more pragmatic. Instead of burning bridges with Russia, they should have built bridges with Russia. The talk of Ukraine joining NATO at Russia's expense, Ukraine's overthrowing of the democratically elected President Yanukovych and sanctions pushed Putin into a corner. USA invaded Iraq with impunity in 2003 and caused more damage to the Iraqi people than Russia did to Ukraine between 2014 and 2022, and they weren't sanctioned like Russia was, and US proved that might is right.

Why did Russia not invade other neighbors like Kazakhstan? Because they understood that pragmatism is important, especially having Russia as their neighbor, so they knew it's best not to ditch Russia.

It's the 21st century, there should be no more wars. The onus is on both sides to talk to each other and manage differences, which means compromises have to be made for the greater good.

Will you quit with the "ohh I'm totally not pro-Russian shill" bullshit?

[Iphie]

Will you quit with the "ohh I'm totally not pro-Russian shill" bullshit?

He can't, it's part of the deal or he won't get paid in turnips.

[Cynical Asshole]

The intention seems good, but prolonging an unwinnable war isn't helping Ukrainians not be killed, it's just prolonging their misery and more Ukrainians will die. Ukraine and the West should understand that there is no perfect solution, and should abandon their quest for a perfect solution. Perfect is the enemy of good. Sooner or later, Ukraine and their war backers from the West will have to begin talks with Russia (and vice versa). It was a huge mistake last year for the West to pressure Indonesia into disinviting Putin from attending the G-20 summit and talking about boycotting the summit if Putin attends when it was an opportunity for both sides to talk to each other.

The war could have been avoided if the West and Ukraine were more pragmatic. Instead of burning bridges with Russia, they should have built bridges with Russia. The talk of Ukraine joining NATO at Russia's expense, Ukraine's overthrowing of the democratically elected President Yanukovych and sanctions pushed Putin into a corner. USA invaded Iraq with impunity in 2003 and caused more damage to the Iraqi people than Russia did to Ukraine between 2014 and 2022, and they weren't sanctioned like Russia was, and US proved that might is right.

Why did Russia not invade other neighbors like Kazakhstan? Because they understood that pragmatism is important, especially having Russia as their neighbor, so they knew it's best not to ditch Russia.

It's the 21st century, there should be no more wars. The onus is on both sides to talk to each other and manage differences, which means compromises have to be made for the greater good.

Russel Brand? Is that you?

[Azadina]

It's the 21st century, there should be no more wars. The onus is on both sides to talk to each other and manage differences, which means compromises have to be made for the greater good.

Komrade komissar, do tell what the compromises were that RuZZia was offering in return for their demands of concessions and "security guarantees" from the west?

Because I don't remember it being a damn thing. "Give me your house, land and money or I kill you" is not a damn compromise, or if you think it is, then feel free to consider those as my demands there. Now you compromise with me, or are you going to be unreasonable and unwilling to compromise?

[zealo]

The only ”compromise” Russia is due at this point is the people they have in Ukraine getting to leave with their lives still intact if they retreat back behind where the border was in 1991.

Russia’s real intentions couldn’t be more out in the open especially after Putler started comparing himself to Peter the great, the real reasons for why things have gone this far have absolutely jack shit to do with NATO and the west.

[TrueNeutral]

There's always so much concern for the Ukrainians fighting and dying. Have you like...checked to see what they think about it compared to the alternative? Intentional or not, this is often a common tactic of pro-Russian folks engaging dishonest. Feigning concern for the poor Ukrainians who have no hope but to die as things stand.



Damn, has Russia tried...not invading a sovereign nation for funzies? That's generally a good way to get ostracized by the international community no matter who you are. Miss me with Putin's crocodile tears he can't hang out with the cool kids.



Wow, this like, literally flies in the face of all recent history. I'm a bit too tired to start digging into it but...damn. How would they have avoided Russia "invading Ukraine to remove Nazis"?



How dare a sovereign nation discuss strategic alliances that are in its benefit. Has Russia ever considered why so many of the former USSR vassal states have sought outside alliances? It's strange, da? Miss me with the Russian stooge getting tossed out though.



It was wrong and it shouldn't have happened. But the US actually built a coalition and some support before going in, even under some bullshit pretenses, not that it's much of a justification for an unjust war. Not sure how that excuses what Russia is doing today though.



I don't think pragmatism is high on the priority list for a nation that's struggled with supplies during the war because of rampant corruption. Nor that pragmatism was high on their priority list when they decided to invade Ukraine as we've seen that turned out to be a pretty poor decision.



Excellent, tell Russia to withdraw their troops from all of Ukraine's territory, including Crimea, and fuck off back home. Then we have no more war and everyone is happy.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm half waiting for the totally serious, "Not one step eastward!" claim to rear its head.

Plenty of Ukrainian men don't want to fight because they know war is bad and they could get killed. Ukrainian men are paying bribes to recruiters to avoid fighting. Ukraine is an incredibly corrupt country, if one could bribe their way out of war, who knows what happens to the aid that the West is sending them? It is easy to encourage others to fight and die from the comfort of our own homes when we're not there. Peace is a good thing because nobody dies. War is bad because people die. Ukraine will eventually run out of men to fight given that they're suffering losses, and men unwilling to fight. I wonder if the cheerleaders for war in Ukraine are willing to fight on behalf of them? I heard that they're recruiting foreigners to fight for them, you know, the Ukraine Foreign Legion.



Civilians like the lady here at 2:13 are getting tired of this war and she hopes to be liberated by the Russians just to end the misery (her words, not mine).


Not RT or Russian propaganda btw, it's Western media that are reporting these stories.

Russia is wrong to invade Ukraine (and the talk of denazification was just an excuse), make no mistakes about that, but to pretend that the West had no role to play in the events leading to this tragedy is dangerous as the West and Ukraine needs to recognize the problem before solving it. The war shouldn't have happened, it was the result of failed diplomacy because of a few egoistic men in suit (and one comedian in cargo pants) that millions of poor Ukrainians who had no say had to suffer the consequences.

Ukraine and its Western war sponsors can choose to be emotional or practical, the former will certainly lead to more unnecessary deaths.

Knowing that the United States is incapable of brokering peace between Russia and Ukraine as I recall they have been waging wars (or proxy wars) like in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria (hopefully Taiwan isn't next), I hope China will be able to broker peace between Russia and Ukraine as they have a record of actually making making peace, and they did so by playing peacemaker between Iran and Saudi Arabia earlier this year.

May the peace between the two countries last.


If not China, then I hope if Trump is fortunate enough to be elected in 2024, he will end the war as he promised. I know this guy lies a lot (like the election being stolen etc..), but when it comes to making peace, I think he is serious. No major wars have started under his presidency, the war between Russia and Ukraine happened under Biden. Interestingly, polls have shown that voters have higher confidence in Trump when it comes to handling the war in Ukraine than the current warmonger in chief (who voted for the Iraq war in 2003).

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...nd-china-poll/

[Dontrike]

If not China, then I hope if Trump is fortunate enough to be elected in 2024, he will end the war as he promised. I know this guy lies a lot (like the election being stolen etc..), but when it comes to making peace, I think he is serious. No major wars have started under his presidency, the war between Russia and Ukraine happened under Biden. Interestingly, polls have shown that voters have higher confidence in Trump when it comes to handling the war in Ukraine than the current warmonger in chief (who voted for the Iraq war in 2003).

Alright, mods, wanna do something about this obvious Russian troll or are we gonna have to put up with this shit for the next two years?

Interestingly, polls have shown that voters have higher confidence in Trump when it comes to handling the war in Ukraine than the current warmonger in chief

Lies are not interesting.

[TrueNeutral]

Alright, mods, wanna do something about this obvious Russian troll or are we gonna have to put up with this shit for the next two years?



Lies are not interesting.

Are we not allowed to have different opinions? Having a different opinion about how the war should end does not make me a Russian troll.