Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Wilian]

Sure. Not disagreeing at all, call them out and you have my backing.
But the self-importance of the people on this forum that they think Russian troll farms give a shit about us is just hilarious.

Troll farms are all about quantity and reach.

[Benggaul]

Sure. Not disagreeing at all, call them out and you have my backing.
But the self-importance of the people on this forum that they think Russian troll farms give a shit about us is just hilarious.

Troll farms carpet-bomb the internet regardless of how "low-tier" a forum is. I won't comment on whether or not I think we have an infestation here, but to categorically claim there's no way they are present here is pretty much on par with claiming they are. Even odds either way.

So instead of speculating just report the stupid trolling propagandists and move on. And if the mods don't get off their fucking asses and ban the low-post count ban-evading alt accounts/propagandists then that's pretty much how it is around here these days anyway.

[Kaleredar]

How dare you having some kind of sound reasoning !

...So the people who get banned for parroting Russian propaganda who keep coming back again and again under burner accounts are doing so on their own volition?


So, "pathetic," as I mused earlier?

[Xyonai]

They have to either be getting paid or be so incredibly petty that they think they need to back Russia on a WoW gaming forum by creating numerous burner accounts to sift through.

The first is morally repugnant, the second is just... pathetic?

I'm more inclined to lean towards petty, as is usually the case with these kinda folks. But I think getting way into the weeds in speculating the legitimacy of our local shit-stirrers is against forum rules or something so we can just move on until they show up again with more brickheaded 'peace talk' takes.

[Kaleredar]

I'm more inclined to lean towards petty, as is usually the case with these kinda folks. But I think getting way into the weeds in speculating the legitimacy of our local shit-stirrers is against forum rules or something so we can just move on until they show up again with more brickheaded 'peace talk' takes.

I'd chock "petty" up with "pathetic." They feel the need to defend their dictatorial country's genocidal invasion of a foreign nation on a WoW gaming forum.

[Elder Millennial]

Sure. Not disagreeing at all, call them out and you have my backing.
But the self-importance of the people on this forum that they think Russian troll farms give a shit about us is just hilarious.

The purpose of troll farms is to create self propagating misinformation.

Once the ball gets rolling the distinction between the troll and the person propagating it becomes practically meaningless.

So simply labelling the person propagating the troll farm propaganda as a troll themselves can be effective for highlighting that they are spouting bullshit.

[Xyonai]

The purpose of troll farms is to create self propagating misinformation.

Once the ball gets rolling the distinction between the troll and the person propagating it becomes practically meaningless.

So simply labelling the person propagating the troll farm propaganda as a troll themselves can be effective for highlighting that they are spouting bullshit.

If nothing else, it's sometimes difficult to parse people who actually believe in whack-a-do nonsense with actual malicious actors so we're stuck having to skirt and play nice with them until they snap and get themselves banned because they can't help themselves. So better to err on the side of generalization than risk getting banned over calling a spade a spade when it might just have been a more modest yet still incredibly shovel shaped trowel instead.

[PgStckr]

Yet more lies being pushed, but there’s one thing that this post is quite illuminating about all the same.

That Ulf Kristersson would have said that is a mistranslation currently circulating in various arabic medias widely, but that we have a Russian vatnik here pushing that exact same bullshit out of his playbook concurrently is quite telling on from just what corner they got it out of.

Yeah, turns out, Minsk 1 and 2 were pushed around by corrupt okrainian government, who were not going to stick to said Agreements from the get-go, anyway, as attested to by both the-then president of okraine Pytor Porosenko and the-then german chancellor Angela Merkel.

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The purpose of troll farms is to create self propagating misinformation.

Once the ball gets rolling the distinction between the troll and the person propagating it becomes practically meaningless.

So simply labelling the person propagating the troll farm propaganda as a troll themselves can be effective for highlighting that they are spouting bullshit.

...or you could engage a witch hunt.
What if I am a troll, or you?

[TrueNeutral]

Do you mean the restrictions that began being instituted after Russia invaded?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langua...ooks_and_music

Or were there other issues? Miss me with believing Putin actually gives a shit about the average Russian, or average pro-Russian Ukrainian given the actions of the past few years.

No, I meant before Russia invaded in 2022.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia...ban_in_Ukraine
https://www.france24.com/en/20180920...ks-controversy

The move was criticized, even by criticized by the West. Isn't this cultural genocide? Is it acceptable? Or it is okay because Ukraine is the "good guy"?

See, this is where people have an issue with you. You're treating Russia's largely post-war justifications as if they're fact.

So, pray tell, what is the fact? That Russia invaded Ukraine just because one fine day it felt like grabbing more land, that the West had no role to play in the events leading up to February 2022? Your bias against Russia blinds you.

Check out John Mearsheimer, a renowned international relations scholar from the US. He offers an objective perspective on the Ukrainian crisis, criticizing the West for antagonizing Russia since the end of the Cold War. One of main points is that NATO has been continuously expanding into Eastern Europe, incorporating several countries that were once part of the USSR. This is a point of contention between the US and Russia, dating back to the 1990s when Boris Yeltsin clashed with Bill Clinton over it after USSR collapsed.

Mearsheimer also suggests that if China were to establish a military alliance and include Mexico and Canada, the United States would unquestionably be upset. In the context of Ukraine-Russia relations, a central concern is NATO's efforts to include Ukraine in its alliance, similar to the example made about China.
https://oxfordpoliticalreview.com/20...ar-in-ukraine/

I am not saying Putin is right for invading Ukraine; he is wrong, and nothing justifies the invasion (as much as you insist that I am justifying it, I am not, but hey, you do you). However, do consider a different perspective; there are two sides to every coin.

With the presence of numerous NATO bases in close proximity to Russia, the USA's penchant for war, and the outcome of a survey conducted across over 60 countries that identified the USA as the biggest threat to world peace. When considering these factors, it's no wonder why Putin perceives the situation (NATO expansion) as problematic.

Like you, I am a fan of sources:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...cording-to-a-p
https://www.ilcambiamento.it/files/G...ernational.pdf

Most excuses are shit. Earlier shit excuses don't justify later shit excuses. Stop trying to make this about America, America didn't invade Ukraine and American boots aren't on the ground.

But the war isn't just about Russia and Ukraine; it is also about US aggression and NATO expansion. The US is a party in this war, and it is important to acknowledge America's propensity for aggression and why Russia is threatened by NATO. The US is not an innocent party. Before I am accused of victim blaming (lol) again, let me reiterate that nothing justifies Russia's invasion, yet neither NATO nor the USA are innocent parties (nor is Russia). Ukraine is the victim here as a result of Russia and the West's failed foreign policy.

[PgStckr]

-snip-
Ukraine is the victim here as a result of Russia and the West's failed foreign policy.

Thank you for a well-though response, but I'll just cut it down to this bit.
I would like to ponder on victimhood of okraine here. Undeniably, okraine is a victim of being played by usa, on that we can agreee.
Did okraine not actively try to side with usa, nato and eu? Did okraine not receive warnings about consequences of such a course of actions?
So okraine knew of the consequences, was willing, and decided to go with it, anyway.
Does it not put the responsibilities of okrainian government's action on okraine?

[Gabriel]

No, I meant before Russia invaded in 2022.

The Russian invasion began in 2014, so shove it.

[PgStckr]

The Russian invasion began in 2014, so shove it.

why stop here? Let's say, since 1648, when Bogdan Xmelnickiy begged Russian Czar to welcome the lands of Lesser Russia into the fold of Russia the Great.

[Saradain]

Seems like some posters are on a hyperdrive initiative. Kremlin talking points resume instantly after the ban has expired

How far Ukraine has pushed in the river area?

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why stop here? Let's say, since 1648, when Bogdan Xmelnickiy begged Russian Czar to welcome the lands of Lesser Russia into the fold of Russia the Great.

Why stop here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27

Established in 880. Capital : Kyiv.

[PgStckr]

Why stop here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27

Established in 880. Capital : Kyiv.

Agreed.
They say, Kiev is "the mother of Russian cities"
Therefore, Kiev is a Russian city.
Case closed.
Mic is dropped.


p.s. Kievan Rus was not a state, but an umbrella term for all the old Rus city-states and feudal states that Kievan Rus consisted of back at the day.

[Saradain]

Agreed.
They say, Kiev is "the mother of Russian cities"
Therefore, Kiev is a Russian city.
Case closed.
Mic is dropped.


p.s. Kievan Rus was not a state, but an umbrella term for all the old Rus city-states and feudal states that Kievan Rus consisted of back at the day.

Moscow falls under the Kievan Rus maps, ergo, Moscow belongs to the current owners of Kyiv - Ukraine. Case closed. Russia exists because of ukrainian people.

p.s. "They say" is not a factual argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv

Under Varangian rule, the city became a capital of Kievan Rus', the first East Slavic state.

Who is right, wikipedia or a random MMO-C propaganda-poster?

[PgStckr]

Moscow falls under the Kievan Rus maps, ergo, Moscow belongs to the current owners of Kyiv - Ukraine. Case closed.

Come, take.

Russia exists because of ukrainian people.

I'm sure okrainian people also dug up the Black sea, aswell.
They dug down a lot of jews during WW2, aswell, but lets put that aside.
Or the fact that okrainians willingly served in SS, Nachtigall, Dirlevanger, etc.
Or willingly served in Einzatszgruppen.

p.s. "They say" is not a factual argument.

same can be said about okrainian "history textbooks"

[Saradain]

Come, take.

I'm sure okrainian people also dug up the Black sea, aswell.
They dug down a lot of jews during WW2, aswell, but lets put that aside.
Or the fact that okrainians willingly served in SS, Nachtigall, Dirlevanger, etc.
Or willingly served in Einzatszgruppen.


same can be said about okrainian "history textbooks"

Don't need to, am not ukrainian, nor does Ukraine wish to take Moscow, they simply want 1991 borders How did your special military operation of 3 days go vs Kyiv?

Ah yes, the good ol' "BUT BUT UKRAINIANS ARE NAZIS!!!". Did you forget already about what Russia did in just the past 1,5 years?

Also, you can check the referenced sources in Wikipedia, but that would be awfully inconvenient for you - you'd need to actually put effort to your arguments

[PgStckr]

Don't need to, am not ukrainian

For good.

nor does Ukraine wish to take Moscow, they simply want 1991 borders

And Russia simply wants her borders secure, her people safe, with okraine being a direct threat.

How did your special military operation of 3 days go vs Kyiv?

Ask Mark Milley, the one who first said it.
As for me, I feel great, having escaped the horrors of okraine and rejoining Russia.

Ah yes, the good ol' "BUT BUT UKRAINIANS ARE NAZIS!!!"

No "buts", they just plain are. Not all, but a hefty figure, especially westerners: Galizia, Lwow, and such.
Or you didn't know about the city of Kirvoi Rog celebrating SS vets as heroes each and evey year?

Did you forget already about what Russia did in just the past 1,5 years?

I don't remember no carpet bombings nor white phosphor being deployed.
They say it's a war, and/or a genocide, and I'm left puzzled: when will Russia commit to the actual war/genocide part?
So far, it doesn't look neither.

Also, you can check the referenced sources in Wikipedia, but that would be awfully inconvenient for you - you'd need to actually put effort to your arguments

Funny that, I'm just reading the part about Bogdan Hmelnitskiy groveling at the feet of Russian Czar, begging for Lessr Russia to return to into t he folds of Russia the Great.
Great read, highly recommend

[Dontrike]

But the war isn't just about Russia and Ukraine; it is also about US aggression and NATO expansion.

It's not, and you should tell your boss to update your script so it sounds a bit more believable to anyone with an IQ above 8.

[Saradain]

For good.


And Russia simply wants her borders secure, her people safe, with okraine being a direct threat.


Ask Mark Milley, the one who first said it.
As for me, I feel great, having escaped the horrors of okraine and rejoining Russia.


No "buts", they just plain are. Not all, but a hefty figure, especially westerners: Galizia, Lwow, and such.
Or you didn't know about the city of Kirvoi Rog celebrating SS vets as heroes each and evey year?



I don't remember no carpet bombings nor white phosphor being deployed.
They say it's a war, and/or a genocide, and I'm left puzzled: when will Russia commit to the actual war/genocide part?
So far, it doesn't look neither.


Funny that, I'm just reading the part about Bogdan Hmelnitskiy groveling at the feet of Russian Czar, begging for Lessr Russia to return to into t he folds of Russia the Great.
Great read, highly recommend

Thanks for the reply! Your arguments basically are "no u", "I don't remember" vs actual facts like massacre of Bucha, and...a book recommendation when your original argument was about a time period that happened much later than founding of Kievan Rus. And seeing your post history in unrelated threads, I have a feeling you won't be posting for another set of few days soon(tm). Enjoy your holiday!

Easy come, easy go. Although you better start fighting for your Russia, "resident of Donbass", or will you flee like the rest of your true ilk?